Hi everyone My name is Leo and im located in Upstate NY and live on Saratoga Lake. I bow, muzzleload and rifle hunt and love bow most of all. I support the early muzzleloader season because of this. I know way to many people that hunt buck only and pass up does all the time. Last year i took out 3 doe with my bow and 1 with gun. I never harvested a buck. Everyone thought i had a dissapointing year cause i never got a buck but it was the best year hunting i ever had to me. What im getting at is that the buck to doe ratio where i live is outta control. Better then 20-1 ratio im sure. It makes me sick of all the bow hunting friends i know that pass up doe because they want a buck that usually dont come during bow cause there is no rut and the bucks are following the does. 3 friends last year with bow... No deer for them 3 for me. With an early muzzleloader season for just doe it will help balance out buck to doe populations that needs help being balanced and better the heards to make it threw winter. I mean i know its not going to make alot of bow hunters happy but we have to do what is right to manage the deer population cause if we dont mother nature will and after turkey hunting this year i came across more dead deer then ever. Its friends like mine that should be harvesting does where i live that arent doing there job that is bringing this early muzzleloader season upon us also. This is a step in the right direction even if its just for a year or a couple. Just my opinion.

Leo, what unit are you in?

I believe deer numbers are not in the order of some of the more southern and western counties. What kind of DMP numbers are there available in your area, did people you know get turned down for them?

Reason I am questioning this is some areas are not even offering DMP tags...Doughboy comes to mind as one who hunts in such an area. The goal is to reduce the numbers state wide(deer population), but in certain areas there are facts going the other way.

You are right in the buck to doe numbers are rough out there, but I believe the first priority is getting deer per square mile and kill count per area/county to a point where they can focus on maintaining the herd at a fair balance both numbers and ratio wise.

Cheers to you though for not hesitating to take a doe, try to turn some of your friends minds.

You know what? You guys are talking about N.Y.? I live and hunt in N.J. and hunt also in N.Y.[in the ADKS]
I hunt in south Jersey and it sucks!What 80lb. deer? Every year here they are passing a bu****** law, as it is it isnt hard enough to hunt on state land in the pines as it is.I have to walk around a concrete foundation this year to get to my stand,it wasn`t there last year.They said years ago that the Pine Barrens was a watershed and that no developement would happen.Well guess what!!!There are houses going up and property with the patented,"NO TRESPASSING OR HUNTING"signs all over.
I actually think that N.J....JUST.....passed a law stateing that you cant shoot a buck when wearing boxer shorts!
I killed more bucks in 3 yrs [3] in the ADKS than in 3 yrs than in jersey [1].

Here in 6K, we are suffering due to the DMP's. We have such a low doe count right now its almost funny. There were a lot of does last year, but the winter took it's toll for sure. In Northern 6K, you'd be lucky to see 2 does on a weekend, let alone a buck. People around here have no respect for the law and shoot the does and use other WMU tags. It's Pitiful. I know of one guy who has shot 4 Bucks so far this year, a 7pt, a big 9pt a 4pt and i think a 5pt. He is a Farmer and Always gets atleast 3 bucks in a year. What he does is goes around at night and spotlights fields, then hunts them in the morning and shoots the bucks. Its horrible. But on the rebound, We hunt Southern Tier in 7J (Cazenovia), and On opening morning I saw 17 different deer (16 does). We have seen well over 50 Deer between 5 of us, and that includes 3 different bucks that are 8+pts, The difference between here and there is unreal! I don't think i've seen 17 deer all year up here. But I think the State should definetaly revamp the system to get the system back incheck, ofcourse you are going to have high deer rates in Southern Zone due to the Lack of A harsh winter, but It's like hunting two different states.

I am located in 5r in saratoga county. I live 2 minutes from rt 29 which decides the northern and souther boundries which i love cause i hunt northern till southern opens. Of my 6 friends that applied for DMP's in 5R 2 of them recieved them. I used to get 2 each year every so often but was gauranteed 1 but not this year. This year i also purchased a lifetime license for gun, bow and muzzleloader thinking that would help my chances but no way. I am not aware of to the # of permits available in this area as i didnt know you could find out. But i know they cut the number they gave out drastically. Where I hunt it is alot of farm land and my land borders a wildlife preserve so deer numbers are great. I had no oak trees in my woods produce this year so the sign and seeing of deer has been less then ever before. Prior years during bow i used to see 5 or 10 deer and sometimes even more deer feeding in my oaks. I dont think winter killed them off cause i hunt my piece next to the preserve in a swamp from hell and in a days sitting throughout the day i would see doe coming and going. Granted some could be the same deer i counted twice. I know the numbers on my land are still in good number but not down near the oaks and creek due to no acorns. I read somewhere that the deer numbers where i live i believe are less then 2 deer per square mile... my land plus the preserve i would bet there are better then 50 deer and its a probably close to 1000 acres. I hunt almost everyday and have come across a 3,4 and 6 pointer in that time. Thats all. This past weekend i went hunting on the NY/VT border with my friends from VT. who hunt NY. I sat in treestand and counted 19 Doe walk by in a single filed line and not 1 buck with them... I see this alot... 5 or 10 doe and sometimes more go by buckless. This states gos about counting deer the wrong way... fly over with helicoptor i believe and just look out to see what they can see and make number figures that way. With all the doe i see on my land and only 3 bucks I dont care if i dont get a buck cause they will be bigger next year. I'll shoot a doe and save a buck where i live. With the lack of food in the woods where i live and the corn fields already cut the deer cant survive off of just grass.... gonna be a hard winter for deer this year... its gonna be hard to not feed the deer threw the winter monthes to help them but I cant do it and have them become dependent on me.

Just as I suspected there. If 2 out of 6 got DMP's ( did they get 1 or 2 each?) then you are running at about 33% of successful applications. I am in one of the counties where we are considered a red county, meaning 10,000 or more per year deer kill, and DPM (deer per mile) are high. I did not hear of one hunter getting denied for a dmp in our area.

I take the DEC's choice to limit DMP permits for your area as a sign that they are not looking to cull the herd in that area as much as other areas of the state.

i agree. a muzzloading week would be a good transition