RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

The decreasing buck harvests occurred while the herd was increasing not decreasing, so your point about the the spike in the buck harvest in 2000 and 2001 is irrelevant. Without AR the buck harvet in both 2002 and 2003 would have exceeded 200K.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

It is up to the individual to determine how many deer they enjoy killing and how many deer you can use. Just rememeber, killing 5 adult doe /yr. reduces the future BB population by around 5 BB/yr. , so you are decreasing the number of BB survive just as if you were harvesting BB instead of adult doe.


You raised that issue before and I said I would have emphasized herd reduction instead telling hunters not to shoot BB and small deer and I wouldn't have created a protected class of deer with AR.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

It is up to the individual to determine how many deer they enjoy killing and how many deer you can use. Just rememeber, killing 5 adult doe /yr. reduces the future BB population by around 5 BB/yr. , so you are decreasing the number of BB survive just as if you were harvesting BB instead of adult doe.


You raised that issue before and I said I would have emphasized herd reduction instead telling hunters not to shoot BB and small deer and I wouldn't have created a protected class of deer with AR.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

Thanks to AR that didn't happen. And the point I make is that your claim about the "poor 40,000 guys that went home with a doe as a consolation prize" is bogus. Just because a high number had success that one year does not mean they should be guranteed or necessarily expect a forkie every year. As a matter of fact, success ratio's will increase as a result of slowly falling hunting population and license sales. When I was a kid it was one deer per hunter per year. Folks don't know how good they have it these days and yet they complain.

Really, I'm tired of this joke of an argument. I think you just like to argue and be contrary. If you hunt in a big woods area that is controlled by timber interests, then you have to realize that the livelyhood of people and the needs of consumerism must come before your level of hunting satisfaction. If you need for the herd to be managed for your amusement only, then you should go buy a big chunk of property and fence it in.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

No one was ever guaranteed a forkie every year, even with a harvest of 203K buck in 2000 amd 2002. The success rate was approximately one hunter out of every buck , or 1 buck /hunter every fivr years.


That will only happen if the number of hunters decrease at a faster rate than the decrease in the herd. If we loose 50% of the hunters by the time we reduce the herd by 50% , then the PGC will not have enough hunters to control the herd and the problem will become worse than ever.

No , I just want hunters to know the truth about Alt's plan because all they get is smoke and mirrors from Alt and the outdoor writers. BTW, I only hunt private land now, so what happens in 2 G doesn't effect me one bit. They can reuce the herd to zero in 2 G and it won't change a thing where I hunt.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

Dont pass up all BBs. the last two i took both weighed between 110lbs and 130lbs. these are mature deer that aren't needed in the breeding cycle. but yesteday i watched a yearling bb die, he was about 60yard in front of me, when i watch a ML hunter sneeking in, it wasn't long after KABOOM. i met up with him. the guy was retired, but not by long, and had the entire season to hunt. i think what really Peeed me off was his family owns the bottom of the mountain that is sealed off by posters, and he decided to come up onthe state ground to shoot what little is left!!!!!!.
That yearling couldn't of weighted more than 40lbs wet, and had 1" buttons, i wonder what he may of turned into??????

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

Are you saying that you shot two mature BB? That is a new one to me as I have never heard of such an animal.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

A WCO from Elk county said he has checked numerous 1.5 buck that had spikes less than 3 " and were harvested as anterless deer. These deer are not BB,since only male fawns are referred to as BB. However, the more mature anterless deer we harvest , the more of these 1.5 buck will be harvested along with more bucks that have lost their racks.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

Yes, in my mountain hunting career I have seen many 1.5 spikes that might not make the old standard, but we never referred to them as BB nor did we consider them "mature" nor were they. Bucks living in the big woods eat too much woody browse and not enough nutrient rich foliage. It is common in these areas to see 1.5 bucks that fit this description. They are NOT the product of AR but of a hard life all around. These deer get NO surplus nutrients and the antlers get sacrificed in the interest of skeletal growth and health of body. To somehow insinuate that Ar is causing this is irresponsible and rediculous. Mature bucks in these areas end up having decent racks when they are done growing their body. If they live long enough that is. that is where AR comes in...:D

As far as shooting these as antlerless deer, I'm not even goint to comment on this farce of an excuse for shooting one. OOPS.. I just did.

RE: PA- Who has shot BB and will you in the future?
 

It is not an excuse for shooting them,because no excuse is needed since they are a legal anterless deer. It is simply a fact of life that as you increase the anterless harvest ,more adult buck will be harvested as anterless deer, especially since AR increases the number of adult buck that survive tthe first few days of buck seaon ,only to be harvested as anterless deer later in the season.