Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

I have about 85 acres and am looking to construct a 3-D course. I want to do it right the first time. So I am gathering information before I start. I need all info related to this topic...course layout, safety concerns, insurance, etc...
Anything will be appreciated.



Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:06:22

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

E-mail me...

I've closely participated in the design of two 40-target 3D courses.

Here is a short list of things to consider:

Aerial maps will help a lot. If you don't have one... make a simple sketched Aerial view of your own. Trust me... this will help. Once you have this map... frame or laminate it and hang it on the wall for easy reference.

Contact your insurance agent for quotes... if needed. Don't trust a strager with your liability issues. Also... most liability clauses will differ from state to state. I.e. in Pa, a liability waiver means nothing when it comes to someone getting injured on our property. Don't believe it? Call your attorney ann find out for yourself.

Will it be a 30 or 40 target course?

Will it be an IBO tournament course.. or a casual course to ready other hunters for the upcoming season? If IBO... you must adhere to the specs found on the I.B.O. website.

If intended to be used as a local club competition range only... heck, you are limited only to your imagination. Over the years I've seen some pretty crazy/outrageous/hysterical shots.

Are there any water hazards involved?

Are there any hills involved...?

Is it possible to wind the course past your starting point? This way... you can offer the shooters a break in the middle of the course? Additionally, you will be selling more refreshments than if you only have them stop back after the shoot is over.

How do you plan to set out targets? 10 from the front... ten from the rear... and meet in the middle? The number of targets [and number of participants/helpers] will dictate the most efficient method.

How many people will help you set out the targets during the 3D shoots? If no one shows up to help... can you do this on your own? 4 wheelers work great... but tractors work best. After a while, you will find yourself replacing belts... and making repairs on any four wheeler.

Do you live in an area where these targets can be left out for extended periods?

Storage of targets is always an issue.

Repairing targets is always [never] fun. :)

Safety issues? Easy... make sure all shots are away from other targets and travel routes between every target. Nothing worse than hearing an arrow zipping through the woods overhead or nearby.

Are there going to be any other events [shotgun sports] held on the same day as your 3D shoots?

Does anyone else have access to this land? Will they object to your using the entire 85 acres? Ask for their input.. because it's always better to ask... than to be forced into re-cutting a course. TRUST ME! Do it right the first time.

Also... if you plan to have steps anywhere on the course [stands or on steep hills] ...make sure they are coated with a non-skid material [all of them].

Moving targets? Sure... but there are a few considerations which need to be discussed... i.e. manual [another person needed], automatic, or self started [gravity/pull rope].... not to mention safety issues.

More than one target at a single station? Yep.

Elevated stands? Sure... [IMO] they are the best shots on the course.

Water targets? Woohoo! You betcha!

Finally... it will be difficult at first... but with a few dedicated friends... and an equal amount of quality chain saws, pruners and weed whackers... you can have a course completed in a few weeks.

Do you have access to a brush-hog? If so... this makes things a little easier... sometimes but is not necessary.

Like I said... feel free to send e-mail and I will help as much as possible.

-DT

Edited by - PA DropTine on 02/20/2002 13:18:31

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Probably the best way to design a course is to attend shoots at as many different clubs as possible to gain insight and ideas. Droptines ideas are all great and obviously come from experience. I cant expand on what he said because he said it very well.
If I could give one suggestion it would be to say that you cant make it too
"Idiot proof" Mark your trails so wellthat no-one can get lost and someone still will. You can make all the shots reasonably safe and some moron will make it unsafe.
Other than that, good luck and have fun!

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Thanks for the help...I have already started to look at other courses. I feel the exchange of ideas always helps to improve what has already been done. Should the course have separate areas for novice and expert? or should targets vary in difficulty in the same course? What is a decent number of targets to start with? What are some of the better course designs you've seen?...in other words...what would you do?
OK,OK...we have to take care of the legal and the insurance...so we will- let's move on.
We want to focus on design right now.



Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:06:55

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Are you building it for a fun/hunter course or a serious competition course?

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

How can it be both? Is it possible? or not reccommended?



Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:07:25

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

To do both is a challenge. Serious competitors want open, unobstructed long shots while the fun guys want shorter distances but sometimes enjoy obstructions (that you can SOMEHOW get around or through)
Our club used both hunter pegs as will as comp pegs with good response from both groups. Different brands and exotic targets appeal to the fun crowd (I've seen dinosaurs, gators, armadillos, bionic deer etc) The comp guys want targets they know (mckenzies) so they can shoot for that score. Play with scenes ... shooting past the doe to get the buck ... the black bear under a dark grapevine tangle... any tall target over a hump is always a mindblower. One time we put the top half (only)of a standing bear over a little hump, at the end of the day his head was all shot up cause everyone thought he was way further and shot high. I guess the main ingredient is variety though. mix up the distances, positions and the targets to keep the course interesting.

BTW ask your local insurance agent to talk to Northland Insurance Co. They are very fair with shooting club and commercial range liabilityand will work with any independent agent. If he cant find them email me and I'll gve you their number. I think they are available in most all states.

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Well BT, you and DT really have had a lot of sound advice, and yes I would like to get that insurance guy's number. Just from what I've heard so far, it sounds like the NON-IBO course would be a whole lot more fun with realistic hunting scenarios. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Serious competitors want open, unobstructed long shots while the fun guys want shorter distances but sometimes enjoy obstructions (that you can SOMEHOW get around or through)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
And sometimes those guy's are just that...too serious.
So to answer your question, I think I would build for people to have fun...but you know how quick an ego can start a competition.
OK, so we want a &quot;recreational&quot; course that hinges loosly on a competitive set-up, right?




Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:09:01

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Sounds like you're on the right track! I'll get that number for you and email it sometime tomorrow.

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

mlaubner, I just sent you an e-mail on another insurance company. If you don't get it let me know.

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Thanx IA, I got your e-mail with the insurance info...I'm calling them today. You never know if they have any requirements that may help keep premiums to a minimum. You all know how insurance companies can be<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
IA...what do you look for in a good 3-D course?



Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:11:04

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

One that has targets I can hit! Really, I haven't shot much 3D this past year, due to family and some health problems. Before that I'd shoot the IBO and while not ever causing the pros to be concerned I had a good time. This is what we try for at our club. It used to be that we'd bend over backwards to try and please a few. Guess we forgot our roots. We added our Bowhunter stake (35 yards and under) the year before the IBO did. Saw a great increase in this class just like in the IBO's numbers. Guess this shows where the majority are (hint, hint). This isn't saying we forget about the long stake shooters. We have 3 stakes at each shot. First one is the youth/barebow, second is the bowhunter/women and then the long stake (max. 50 yards) for those wanting this type of challenge. Pee-wees shoot at the distance the one taking them around feels they are capable. Kill zones must be open and reachable from any of the stakes but you can have brush, etc. that will make distance judging difficult. You aren't going to be able to please everyone so try for the majority. If you know IBO shooters then ask one or two to walk the course and make sure you aren't being unreasonable for the long stake. When we started ours we put what we felt were challenging shots for the long stake but found out these shooters were in another class as far as ability went. If you have terrain then utilize it. Our range is flat but I think we make up for it with placement (angle some animals), selection of animals (we try each year to get some of the newer animals that most shooters don't get to see until later) and just a fun atmosphere. When you set it up have several people, one stays at the shooting stake, one at the animal and one at the next stake. This way you can see if there is a danger or not. Try fo fun and the word will get around and people will come. Unfortunately Sunday seems our biggest draw day. We tried Saturdays but not a real big response, they'd say they would rather shoot Sunday. Now a church here had shoots years ago and would draw 100-150 people each month on Saturday. Find what works best for you, nothing is concrete.
Hope this helps some. Any other way I can help just let me know.
Jon
By the way, we only have 40 acres and usually have a 30 target course with no problems. Every now and then we hold a 40 target shoot so you should be able to on your 85 acres. Don't forget the open field shots if you have them. This is where you really get the guys on yardage.

Edited by - IroquoisArcher on 02/21/2002 21:22:46

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

I know it's been a couple of days since the last post but I was wondering if anyone has information on any 3-D courses or competitions in Harford or Cecil county(MD)area? Please help. I am getting close on this thing! Thanks



Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:11:48

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Mlaubner
I promised to email you that ins co number but my outgoing email still is down. I hope I'm not breaking any rule here butb the number is 800-472-7771 for the Northland ins Co's wholesaler for range liability. They will send you an application that must be submitted through a MD independent broker.
Hope this is helpful!

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

Thanks BT, I need to call them because I want to make sure that before I build anything I am within any guidelines that they may have for such a course.
Does anyone know of any resteictions or guidlines that would keep a course &quot;up to code&quot;?
Again, thanks for your help!



Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:13:57

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

By the way, I have found 1 3-D course in the Harford Co. Area(MD), Deer Creek Archery. Can anyone help me out with any others? Thanks.<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

http://www.insidebaltimore.com/abc2/...-seafood.shtml

RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
 

How about any 3-D courses in a 50 mile radius?