The antlered to anterless ratio , is around 1 :4 or or 1:5 in my area. The only way you can have a 1:10 ratio is if a significant percentage of the doe in your area aren't being bred. However, if every doe has 1 surviving fawn,which is the state average, then every spring the herd returns to a 1:3 ,B/D ratio even if you don't include the males that ,were carried over from the previous year.

EXAMPLE; 2 doe produce 2 fawns,1 BB and 1 female. Therefore , there are to adult doe and 1 female fawn for a total of 3 females,producing a B/D ratio of 1:3.

Can you find a flaw in that reasoning?

Big Country,

I hear you, but I do find that observations or pictures speak louder than words...

deaddeer,

I believe your numbers look good but reality is something different. You are making an assumption that every buck born beomes an 6 or 8 pointer eventually. The reason your numbers don't work by me is that 1, there is a hunting club, 25 members, on 500 acres next to me. Next to that is over 3,000 acres of Public Game Lands. The hunting club ONLY shoots bucks, 5 points or more. Button bucks are the dumbest animals in the woods and are easy target for un-experienced hunters on the Public Lands. Therefore, the button bucks don't make it to full spread, more does survive. Big bucks head into the private communities where it's safe, and other bucks are shot on the 500 acres or 3,000 acres of public land which is heavily hunted if they are there.

Where do you see reality and your numbers comming together??

Pike county might be different from Wayne near me but not by much? Also, why are there several DMAP areas in Pike county selling doe permits, such as the Promise Land, because there is a buck problem. NO, Doe problem!

T

BB and female fawns are harvested at the same rate ,so the BB harvet has no effect on the B/D ratio. If we don't have 1 buck for every 2 adult doe ,can you explain how we harvested 203K bcuk in 2001 and stll harvested 52.6K 2.5+ buck in 2002 ? Bucks are always more reclusive than doe and fawns so we all tend to overestimate their numbers and underestimate the buck populations.

deaddeer,

In Wayne County, 2002, there were 2,359 bucks taken and 6,080 anterless deer for a grand total of 8,439 deer or for every buck taken, 2.5 anterless deer were taken, including button bucks. Since there are 488,265 acres in Wayne County, that equates to .01728364 deer per acre harvested.

I don't believe that the number of deer harvested compares to the number of actual deer on the land. So if you are usuing this as a guide to determine the doe to buck ratio, you are comparing apples to oranges. This is probably due to the fact that the buck is still a more prized reward for hunters than a doe.
If you had a choice between a legal buck and a doe, many would take the buck.

T

That comes out to a harvest rate of 10 DPSM. The harvest rate for Wayne for 92-96 was 15 DPFSM , so that harvest is very close to the average harvest for Wayne Co.

I'm not sure what the point was that you were trying to make , but the harvest rate for Wayne correlates with the OWDD numbers and historical harvest rates.

Did you know that the new goal for Wayne is 13 DPSM instead of 20 DPFSM?

It's flat out impossible to have a b/d ratio of 1/5 let alone 1/10.Let's assume we kill 200000 bucks(pre ar)and carry over 50000.That would give us 1.25 million adult does with a 1/5 ratio.Those adult does would recruit have 1.1 fawns each.For arguments sake and to simplify things we'll say 1 each.That would give us 3 million preseason deer.That ain't happening.The only thing that matters in a healthy herd is breeding age deer.The antlered/antlerless ratio means nothing.

You SURELY do not believe this statement.

What Doug E meant is that in PA where the anterless harvest has averaged 315 K antlerless deer for the past 4 years and where 91% of our adult doe are being bred , it is mathematically impossible to have a B/D ratio of greater than 1:3.

Now before you over react,remember the B/D ratio is defined as the adult breeding B/D ratio, not the antlered to anterless ratio, which would include both male and female fawns.

Deaddeer,

Your numbers do sound more accurate, but observations look otherwise. While scouting the area I'm in, 400 acres, you will see does, does, and more does. I know the bucks are more recuslive than the does.
But I scout and walk the woods all year round since it is like my back yard.

Anyway, you are probably correct.

T