RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

This is JEPORDY:

I'll take "Dances with Deer" for a 1000 Alex.

Why hunters in PA don't see the deer like they used?

What is poor habitat caused by too many deer?

Correct

I'll take "Out of Commission" for 800, Alex

The reason PA's deer managment is no longer the shambles it would have been if left to past and some present commissioners, Alex

What is Gary Alt, Alex

Correct.

I'll take "Diabetic Deer" for 1500, Alex

The name for a sudden increase in blood sugar or Pennsylvanias favorite type of buck to shoot.

What is a spike, Alex

Correct.

I'll take have you Herd for 1000, Alex.

What some people strive for at work or what PA deer hunters need to do more of.

What is increase the amount of Doe they get? ,Alex.

Correct

Enjoy,
Juniorpc.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Do you know that according to the 2001 antler buck survey 51% of the buck harvested in Pike Co. were 2.5 + buck? Do you know that only 40% of the 2.5+ buck in Pike co. have 8+ pts? Do you realize that more than 18% of 2.5+ buck won't be AR legal and they will become the dominant 3.5 buck, that will be doing most of the breeding?

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Junior,explain how the past commissioners left the deer management in shambles.Alt is claiming the herd hasn't been reduced since he took over.*

Explain why you think the deer herd crashed because of poor habitat.Be specific and show some data to support your claim.Make sure you cite how the deer disapeared yet our does still recruit 1.1 fawns per year.Remember Gary Alt is saying the herd continues to increase despite the recent record kills.Only a very healthy herd could increase despite the huge harvest of the last three years.While you're at it,please explain why most of the encloses in Clearfield county fail despite the lack of deer inside the enclosures.Also please explain why Cameron county has been below the deer density goals for over ten years now and Alt still claims there is no regeneration there.Enlighten me on how this could be possible.Don't stop there.When the deer density goals for each management unit are met(less than 15 dpsm),explain how are hunting will be better than ever.Also,currently the state timbers less than 1% off it's timber per year.Explain how this 1% will allow us to have more deer in the future.Are you really excited to lower the deer herd below 15 dpsm all across the state?If you are,please explain how that will make our hunting better.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

You have now and had more of then, Commissioners who professed saving the does. While you can argue the merits of AR as to whether larger bucks will be produced and all that AR supporters claim will be accomplished, you really can't argue the need to shoot does. I'm not talking even talking about the big alotments in recent years, even before that from the hunters in the field on up folks didn't want to shoot does. That's as much a part of our history and tradition as is the shooting of spikes and Y bucks. Many of the Commissioners and at least one present one still can't see the need to kill does. We won't even get into the average weights of deer here compared to what they should be. Besides, I need those weights to come up. A bigger target will make me a better shot!! Juniorpc.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Who bought the 1M doe tags and harvested 352K anterless deer in 2002? The tooth fairy? Who kept the hard stable fron 1989 to1998,by harvesting enough anterless deer to match recruitment?

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

I disagree with you about guys not wanting to shoot does.When I was in school during the early eighties,the first day of doe was a holiday because no one would be in school.The woods were loaded with guys those three days and it sounded like a war.We've been killing far more does than bucks for over ten years now.Since 1992 every doe tag has come with it's own ear tag.This substantially increased the doe kill.I agree that we had far too many deer at one time.The past commissioners did their job and took care of that problem in many areas.We still have far too many in certain areas right now,However,The great Alt is doing very little to see that those areas get the relief they need.The biggest allocation increases have come to the north central region of the state where we've had less deer for quite some time.The reason for the larger increases is because of the huge amount of state timber in this are.In order to get these forests recertified it was written right into the conditions of recetification that the deer herd needed to be severly reduced.This is all about timber not deer.We never had a breeding ecology problem.We never had a poor b/d ratio and we never had unhealthy deer.I've killed tons of deer in this state and I never remember shooting one that didn't have huge layers of fat on it.We haven't seen massive starvation even during some of the worst winters.The deer are healthy.I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let the bucks live longer but that's hard to do when you have a million rifle toting hunters.I live in some of the worst habitat in the state yet I rarely see a mature doe that doesn't have twins with her in the spring.You mention these enclosures with nothing growing outside.Well,come up and see the enclosures around here.They look the same on the inside as they do outside. I'm all for sensible herd reductions that balance the herd with the habitat.Unfortunately it's been proven that saw timber can support far more deer than Alt's goal of below 15 dpsm.Just explain to me how all of Alt's claims will come true when the herd is reduced to less than 15 dpsm statewide.Honestly,answer that.*

The man is fraud and a bold faced liar.He used half truths and misconceptions to sell this program.Now he skirts every question with a smart remark.The hunters have been taken as fools.Some just won't admit it.Remember,if you support Alt,you must be willing to decrease the herd below 15 dpsm.That's the goal of the plan and if you can't accept it,you can't support Alt.*

It's funny,some guys like you say how great of a biologist he is.I agree that he did alot of good research on bears.He also let the population increase by limited hunting pressure on them.That's exactly the opposite of what he's doing with the deer.It's funny,the guy is now running our deer program and didn't know that bears were major predators of fawns until just recently.How did he miss that after studing bears for 25 years?He spent 25 years in the woods studying bears and didn'y realize deer impact the forests until Cindy Dunn of the audubon led him around by the hand and pointed it out.Yep,he's really on the cutting edge of deer management.He was put in this position as a salseman to sell herd reductions to get our forest recertified.He wasn't put there because he was the most qualified biologist.Tell me one more time how our hunting will improve and we'll have more and bigger bucks once the herd is reduced to below 15 dpsm.The pgc just released the present deer densities and density goals for the ntire state.The area where I hunt is now at 12 dpsm.I can tell you from experience,the hunting is not better and there are less bucks than ever before.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Doug your just plain wrong. He's no one's salesman (but his own). He out for only one person- himself. That's why things in the long run we will be fine. Because providing us (hunters) long term healthy forests and healthy deer with bucks in older age classes and bucks and does weighing more at sustainable numbers. Our best interests just happen to match his best interests. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go work for the CIA, other theories just aren't true.
yes the audobon society, foresters, etc all have a stake in a healthy forest and it's to the point where the PGC will be sued if they fail to manage the deer herd at the expense of habitat. Same reason D-map tags have been expanded.
A large part of Gary's bear research dealt with mommas, birth, and newborn cubs. Deer Management- is he learning on the fly? Sure he is and he's admitted as much. Folks just don't want to hear that part of the message. Just like they don't want to here him say mistakes will be made.. and corrected. That's good sound management. Listening to a bunch of folks with little facts and lots of anecdotal "evidence" is certainly not the way to go.
Above somewhere someone mentioned how many 2 1/2 year old bucks in pike county didn't even have eight points why.... because the habitat is so poor. Habitat is much harder, and takes much longer to correct than bringing back deer numbers from some disasterous brink. Until habitat improves deer numbers will need to be reduced. Juniorpc.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

First of all,he should be out for the sportsman not himself.Unforunately he's not.Alt is a Pa state employee.Pa is in danger of losing it's forest certification.Alt was put in charge to see that the herd is brought levels far below the carrying capacity of the land in order for us to retain our certification.The timber is worth alot more to the state than the deer are.I have documentation to back that up.

What mistake has he admitted to and fixed?He's still saying the herd hasn't been reduced after he claimed an 8% reduction in 2001 followed by the biggest kill on record.Explain to me how that can be possible.Explain how the buck harvest will return to normal when the herd gets reduced to below 15 dpsm.Explain how we will have more and bigger bucks when the deer density goals are met.The fact is,when we hit those levels,we will have less 3.5 year old bucks.It's mathematically impossible to have otherwise.How can he claim the habitat is in bad shape if the deer herd keeps growing despite record kills?Tell me what you think the statewide b/d ratio is.Alt won't answer any of these questions,maybe you can.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Thank you very much. He (Alt) has also stated his desire to be head of PGC or he'll go elsewhere. Let him go.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

I wonder if it has sunk in yet to some of the more gullible hunters, that they have been played bigtime......?

No answers to the important questions, hunters are kept in the dark to blindly stumble into the new season with no idea where thier area's densities are because nobody in the PGC has spoken. The deer team appears to be awol in 2004, and the order of the day appears to be to just let hunters overharvest for another year or until they catch on.

So much for anything that came close to QDM in pa, under qdm there is supposed to knowledge of the herd. Pa does not have that, they have mushrooms.