I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
02-14-2002, 08:16 PM
#21
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hallstead P.A. USA
Posts: 187
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
I think that the idea that if you kill a buck either button or horned you put your buck tag on it is a good idea only how is this going to work what if you already got your buck and you thought you were shooting a doe me i say give alt a chance I eat meat not the antlers a bad idea was letting farmers shoot deer off nothing worse than seeing deer shot and left to rot or throne over a bank some where it was awful<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-15-2002, 04:43 AM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
Since the deer don't belong to anyone, farmers should not be allowed to shoot deer or elk for crop damage unless they have opened their land to hunting. Farmers who won't allow hunting and then cry about crop damage deserve what they get.
02-15-2002, 05:28 AM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
Lochorns-
You really like to do that, don't you, LOCK Horns? Heh,heh. OK, as a HUNTER, I HUNT. That is basically what we do. On occasion, we are lucky enough to also HARVEST, which is the ultimate goal of all HUNTERS, is it not? When I go to PA, the same thing applies. I am there for a week away from the rat-race with friends and fellow HUNTERS,to HUNT. The ultimate goal of HARVEST remains the same, and if I am to spend lots of money which will be invested into lodging, food, LICENSING, etc, I want the BEST chance to acheive my ultimate goal of HARVEST.(Don't we all?) Now, you are pointing fingers and telling me that because of the fact that I and most other NR's that would like to have a FAIR chance at HARVEST, and an opportunity to possibly benefit from the HUNT by putting winter meat in the freezer, that we shouldn't be allowed to HUNT in PA or anywhere else at all? Or, that we are not SPORTSMEN? Where do you get off with that thinking? We support HUNTING and HARVESTS (deer management) by doing just this, whether in OUR State, YOUR State, or another State or Country. I think we as HUNTERS, are every bit as much of a SPORTSMAN as the next guy no matter where we live, and have a vested interest in the overall discussions and decisions made on regulations no matter WHERE we hunt, as long as we are spending our money also. No, we may not currently own land there yet, but we still pay for our rights to be there, currently averaging $150 each year times however many years,(with me it's been around 20 in PA= $3000) Versus the $50 average of a resident if they buy a $20 hunting license and the other ML and Archery tags, $50 times the same 20 for comparative purposes=$1000. Now add the State cabin fees of $300+ per wk. rental costs into our equation, times 20= $6000. I think it's easy to see where alot of PA's revenue comes from.
Having hunted North America, Canada, and Africa I think my "sportsmans" dues have been paid, thank-you. You fail to realize that I am not the enemy here, merely another concerned hunter/sportsman trying not only to keep my own individual hunting interest alive in your State, but also in keeping a decent "balance" there so my son and his can have the same opportunies and lasting memories that we currently have today in the future.(or possibly more!) By eliminating the excess does that are currently acknowldeged as being a problem through a simple inclusion on our original tag, we will effectively help to balance the herd over time and make that entirely possible. Not a sportsman? Think again, my friend. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
You really like to do that, don't you, LOCK Horns? Heh,heh. OK, as a HUNTER, I HUNT. That is basically what we do. On occasion, we are lucky enough to also HARVEST, which is the ultimate goal of all HUNTERS, is it not? When I go to PA, the same thing applies. I am there for a week away from the rat-race with friends and fellow HUNTERS,to HUNT. The ultimate goal of HARVEST remains the same, and if I am to spend lots of money which will be invested into lodging, food, LICENSING, etc, I want the BEST chance to acheive my ultimate goal of HARVEST.(Don't we all?) Now, you are pointing fingers and telling me that because of the fact that I and most other NR's that would like to have a FAIR chance at HARVEST, and an opportunity to possibly benefit from the HUNT by putting winter meat in the freezer, that we shouldn't be allowed to HUNT in PA or anywhere else at all? Or, that we are not SPORTSMEN? Where do you get off with that thinking? We support HUNTING and HARVESTS (deer management) by doing just this, whether in OUR State, YOUR State, or another State or Country. I think we as HUNTERS, are every bit as much of a SPORTSMAN as the next guy no matter where we live, and have a vested interest in the overall discussions and decisions made on regulations no matter WHERE we hunt, as long as we are spending our money also. No, we may not currently own land there yet, but we still pay for our rights to be there, currently averaging $150 each year times however many years,(with me it's been around 20 in PA= $3000) Versus the $50 average of a resident if they buy a $20 hunting license and the other ML and Archery tags, $50 times the same 20 for comparative purposes=$1000. Now add the State cabin fees of $300+ per wk. rental costs into our equation, times 20= $6000. I think it's easy to see where alot of PA's revenue comes from.
Having hunted North America, Canada, and Africa I think my "sportsmans" dues have been paid, thank-you. You fail to realize that I am not the enemy here, merely another concerned hunter/sportsman trying not only to keep my own individual hunting interest alive in your State, but also in keeping a decent "balance" there so my son and his can have the same opportunies and lasting memories that we currently have today in the future.(or possibly more!) By eliminating the excess does that are currently acknowldeged as being a problem through a simple inclusion on our original tag, we will effectively help to balance the herd over time and make that entirely possible. Not a sportsman? Think again, my friend. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
02-15-2002, 06:43 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 16
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
"I am in support of the "brown 'n down" in Pa group of hunters. What difference does it make. they all eat the same. legal deer = twang/bang fillets in the freezer."
~Quote from Lochorn.
Lochorn, you must be a "meathunter" too. Don't bother calling yourself a "sportsman" either.
Todd
~Quote from Lochorn.
Lochorn, you must be a "meathunter" too. Don't bother calling yourself a "sportsman" either.
Todd
02-15-2002, 07:55 AM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton Square NJ USA
Posts: 557
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
Luckily you have no say.
You guys have to realize he just likes to read his own words, he'll argue with himself if he could.
I think he's sulking because nobody responded to his thread. How a "brown it's down" guy could consider himself a sportsmen, is beyond funny.
You guys have to realize he just likes to read his own words, he'll argue with himself if he could.
I think he's sulking because nobody responded to his thread. How a "brown it's down" guy could consider himself a sportsmen, is beyond funny.
02-15-2002, 08:01 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Little Egg harbor NJ
Posts: 1,279
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
BTbowhunter, There you go again saying exactally what I wanted to say before I had a chance to. Well said about farmers and crop damage. With you here my posting is very slow. I may never get my monster buck or whatever is next at 1000 posts. nicely done my friend.
Brian
Brian
02-15-2002, 08:21 AM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
Loc-
You are looking at it the way alot of people do, but try this perspective--- isn't tradition a BIG part of the overall hunt, also? Going to the same area, with the same crew, staying at the same cabin, year after year, passed down through the generations, that's all part of the hunting "spirit" too. There is no need to take this away as an excuse for poor management. If for example we WERE to go to another Co, and spend time searching for a NEW place to hunt, wouldn't it also be quite possible that we would then in turn be infringing on OTHER hunters' traditional spots, and quite possibly end up further decimating THAT area of deer? Or, even worse, possibly moving to an area that is even more decimated than the one we left to begin with?! My point is that Tradition serves as a constant with which effective management can be controlled, if everyone bounced to a different part of the State every year, kill ratios,counts, and quality management guidelines could never be effectively established and controlled. By having us all in our respective and constant "spots" each year, deer management can effectively be introduced into individual units as necessary.
Besides, from another angle, ( and a more personal one) we have met alot of nice people (landowners, hunters, etc) in the respective Co's that we hunt, and I'm sure not many people want to move and start all over when there are much better options available. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 02/15/2002 09:46:36
You are looking at it the way alot of people do, but try this perspective--- isn't tradition a BIG part of the overall hunt, also? Going to the same area, with the same crew, staying at the same cabin, year after year, passed down through the generations, that's all part of the hunting "spirit" too. There is no need to take this away as an excuse for poor management. If for example we WERE to go to another Co, and spend time searching for a NEW place to hunt, wouldn't it also be quite possible that we would then in turn be infringing on OTHER hunters' traditional spots, and quite possibly end up further decimating THAT area of deer? Or, even worse, possibly moving to an area that is even more decimated than the one we left to begin with?! My point is that Tradition serves as a constant with which effective management can be controlled, if everyone bounced to a different part of the State every year, kill ratios,counts, and quality management guidelines could never be effectively established and controlled. By having us all in our respective and constant "spots" each year, deer management can effectively be introduced into individual units as necessary.
Besides, from another angle, ( and a more personal one) we have met alot of nice people (landowners, hunters, etc) in the respective Co's that we hunt, and I'm sure not many people want to move and start all over when there are much better options available. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 02/15/2002 09:46:36
02-15-2002, 09:08 AM
#28
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lock Haven Pa USA
Posts: 15
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
I haved lived in Central Pa my entire life.
I've seen the deer heard in my area completely go to h@#l last last several years. Why, because the younger bucks aren't making it to maturity. The buck to doe ratio is way out of wack.
Alt's solution is a start. But, more needs to be done. The 3 to one side antler restriction is a good start. I also think that your back tag should be an either or tag. that's one sure fire way to get does killed off.
You have to remember, up untill last year, you were only able to hunt bucks for 2 weeks. That's why all the bucks got killed off. You had to see horns. People sat, hunted, drove, whatever just to shoot a buck. Didn't have to be anything special, 3" horn on one side. Most guys are out to get meat for in the freezer.
Then there is the issue of limited doe tags. I understand they have to regulate how many deer are killed off in a certain area, but the lottery system they use now just plain stinks. How can you apply for a license that may or may not be there come Monday?
It all nothing but luck. Listen to this.
This last year, my county was alotted 6000 license. They completely sold out in the first day. It's all in when you put your license in the mail. They have to implement a system that is totally unbiased by humans. For example, apply for your doe license when you buy your regular license. Then use a computer to pick random license numbers. That way it is a totally random pick. Or, even have a actual lottery where your application is drawn out of a barrel.
Sorry, I started to ramble. The Game Commission mis-managed the heard for way to long, and we are feeling the effects right now. Remember the bonus tags several years ago?
I'd like to know how they estimate what the deer population is in a certain area. How can they come up with even a reasonably close number? Even with officers in the woods, how do you count deer? Here is a for instance, lets suppose officer A is walking from Mountain e to road F on mountain C. He sees 35 deer in his 2 hour walk. Most run in the same general direction. Now, Officer B is walking 2 miles away, on Mountain C. He sees almost the same number of deer an hour later. They meet at the truck when done, and tally up the number of deer seen. Some if not all of these were possibly the same deer.
I am not a game biologist, nor do I profess to be one. But, I know that to many bucks are being killed before they reach maturity. What's the answer? Maybe Mr. Alt will have one, and maybe not. Only time will tell.
I've seen the deer heard in my area completely go to h@#l last last several years. Why, because the younger bucks aren't making it to maturity. The buck to doe ratio is way out of wack.
Alt's solution is a start. But, more needs to be done. The 3 to one side antler restriction is a good start. I also think that your back tag should be an either or tag. that's one sure fire way to get does killed off.
You have to remember, up untill last year, you were only able to hunt bucks for 2 weeks. That's why all the bucks got killed off. You had to see horns. People sat, hunted, drove, whatever just to shoot a buck. Didn't have to be anything special, 3" horn on one side. Most guys are out to get meat for in the freezer.
Then there is the issue of limited doe tags. I understand they have to regulate how many deer are killed off in a certain area, but the lottery system they use now just plain stinks. How can you apply for a license that may or may not be there come Monday?
It all nothing but luck. Listen to this.
This last year, my county was alotted 6000 license. They completely sold out in the first day. It's all in when you put your license in the mail. They have to implement a system that is totally unbiased by humans. For example, apply for your doe license when you buy your regular license. Then use a computer to pick random license numbers. That way it is a totally random pick. Or, even have a actual lottery where your application is drawn out of a barrel.
Sorry, I started to ramble. The Game Commission mis-managed the heard for way to long, and we are feeling the effects right now. Remember the bonus tags several years ago?
I'd like to know how they estimate what the deer population is in a certain area. How can they come up with even a reasonably close number? Even with officers in the woods, how do you count deer? Here is a for instance, lets suppose officer A is walking from Mountain e to road F on mountain C. He sees 35 deer in his 2 hour walk. Most run in the same general direction. Now, Officer B is walking 2 miles away, on Mountain C. He sees almost the same number of deer an hour later. They meet at the truck when done, and tally up the number of deer seen. Some if not all of these were possibly the same deer.
I am not a game biologist, nor do I profess to be one. But, I know that to many bucks are being killed before they reach maturity. What's the answer? Maybe Mr. Alt will have one, and maybe not. Only time will tell.
02-15-2002, 12:33 PM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
Lochorns, it isn't the farmers right to do that in my own opinion. I feel that it is probablly the most un-ethical thing that I have ever heard. They are farmers, they raise plants that every animal, including humans, loves to eat. They KNOW that deer live in the woods and eat food that is easy to find. All farmers know this. It should go with the work. Because you are a farmer, doesn't mean that you should be able to sit in your tractor with a gun and shoot everything that "might" be eating your food. I know, I know, it is the farmers living, but they could get a different job, they should just accept the fact that no matter what, deer are going to eat the crops they plant. Heck, and if you say that farmers are only farming for the money, that is a load of you know what. A farmer who lives near me and owns 500 acres was offered something like 37 million dollars for the property so the state could build a prison on it. He said no. He enjoys farming, he knows that is what he loves to do, so he, like every farmer should just accept deer and not plot to kill every one they see.
Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)
Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)
02-15-2002, 12:59 PM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: I want your opinion on Pa's new proposals!
Yes, it should be a farmers right to protect his land and crops. The deer, however do not belong to him. If he doesn't want to cooperate with the accepted method of controlling the deer (regulated hunting) he can put a high fence around his place. I know someone will sing out "why should that be the farmers responsibility ?"
My answer would be, that's life! I'm sure we would all be happier if we didn't need to lock our houses but it's a necessary fact of life that we do.
Pinwheel, what you ask is just plain reasonable considering the negligble impact that an any sex archery tag would have on the resource. Considering what NR's pay for a license along with the $$ they bring into the state, we should do what's possible to keep them coming. The only line I would draw with NR's is that there should never be a situation where a resident is denied a chance to hunt because a NR got the tag first. I'm sure any hunter would want that for his state. Can't imagine that vere being an issue in Pa either. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
445
Dont worry, Sooner or later we'll disagree on something. It may not happen when the topic is Pa deer management though<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!!!!
Edited by - btbowhunter on 02/15/2002 14:03:19
My answer would be, that's life! I'm sure we would all be happier if we didn't need to lock our houses but it's a necessary fact of life that we do.
Pinwheel, what you ask is just plain reasonable considering the negligble impact that an any sex archery tag would have on the resource. Considering what NR's pay for a license along with the $$ they bring into the state, we should do what's possible to keep them coming. The only line I would draw with NR's is that there should never be a situation where a resident is denied a chance to hunt because a NR got the tag first. I'm sure any hunter would want that for his state. Can't imagine that vere being an issue in Pa either. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
445
Dont worry, Sooner or later we'll disagree on something. It may not happen when the topic is Pa deer management though<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!!!!
Edited by - btbowhunter on 02/15/2002 14:03:19