NY hunters--blaze orange
07-23-2003, 02:57 PM
#21
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rochester NY USA
Posts: 81
RE: NY hunters--blaze orange
Shouldn' t the criteria for whether a law be passed or not be more than " I have enough common sense to not need the law. So everyone else should too and screw looking out for anybody else even though there dumb actions can effect us all"
maybe legalize drugs - all of them? maybe no more speed limits? I can use the same logic for both of those and a host of others. I' m smart enough to not do it, but don' t make me be smart enough. how do you enforce one taking responsibility for there actions if it' s not law - or should taking responsibilty for your actions be left up to choice too? I bet if someone here was a state trooper or an emt they' d have something to say about the seatbelt laws and how they are sick of seeing dead bodies that could have been saved - but hey if they want to do something dumb, how does it really effect me, the person i really care about? I hate seatbelts, they restrict me from doing a whole bunch of things i love doing - like...uh..like, getting thrown from cars. Maybe if other people dumbness or lack of commmon sense cost' s me money and not just the person' s lives then its important!?!? Is the a law with no basis toprove that it has a positive effect. Is enforcing an occasional prudent, safety law, that is very unrestrictive and unhampering, that has proven itself to be an effective law many times, really that bad? In other states that have this law, how many are not allowed to use treestands anymore or there knives? What other insane laws has it brought into being? The state has let me do just about any other dangerous thing i ask with the occasional saftey device required like a parachute or seatbelt or life vest and helmet . I' m not gonna get all paranoid over this one.
if some said hey this law is keeping me from doing something i love to do, that i do safely, without hurting anyone, because of a few bad apples, and there is no proof the law is even going to make a difference, well then i' d say you had an arguement - i haven' t seen that yet, am i missing something. i mean yeah your giving up your choice in order to possibly save a couple life' s and your giving up what else... ..
that how i look at it at least. i feel like i' m pretty cautious when it comes to accepting new laws but i just don' t see it on this one. alot more good than bad about this law if you ask me. I' m open to be persuaded otherwise.
Eric
maybe legalize drugs - all of them? maybe no more speed limits? I can use the same logic for both of those and a host of others. I' m smart enough to not do it, but don' t make me be smart enough. how do you enforce one taking responsibility for there actions if it' s not law - or should taking responsibilty for your actions be left up to choice too? I bet if someone here was a state trooper or an emt they' d have something to say about the seatbelt laws and how they are sick of seeing dead bodies that could have been saved - but hey if they want to do something dumb, how does it really effect me, the person i really care about? I hate seatbelts, they restrict me from doing a whole bunch of things i love doing - like...uh..like, getting thrown from cars. Maybe if other people dumbness or lack of commmon sense cost' s me money and not just the person' s lives then its important!?!? Is the a law with no basis toprove that it has a positive effect. Is enforcing an occasional prudent, safety law, that is very unrestrictive and unhampering, that has proven itself to be an effective law many times, really that bad? In other states that have this law, how many are not allowed to use treestands anymore or there knives? What other insane laws has it brought into being? The state has let me do just about any other dangerous thing i ask with the occasional saftey device required like a parachute or seatbelt or life vest and helmet . I' m not gonna get all paranoid over this one.
if some said hey this law is keeping me from doing something i love to do, that i do safely, without hurting anyone, because of a few bad apples, and there is no proof the law is even going to make a difference, well then i' d say you had an arguement - i haven' t seen that yet, am i missing something. i mean yeah your giving up your choice in order to possibly save a couple life' s and your giving up what else... ..
that how i look at it at least. i feel like i' m pretty cautious when it comes to accepting new laws but i just don' t see it on this one. alot more good than bad about this law if you ask me. I' m open to be persuaded otherwise.
Eric
07-23-2003, 06:06 PM
#22
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: western N.Y.
Posts: 196
RE: NY hunters--blaze orange
eric, you raise some good points, but theres no other sport in this counrty, under
as much scrutiny then sport hunting, and we must keep our guard up all the time,
you have to ask yourself, why has it been optonial, because 99.9% of us are responsible hunters, and for that other. 10% blaze orange is not going to help,
as much scrutiny then sport hunting, and we must keep our guard up all the time,
you have to ask yourself, why has it been optonial, because 99.9% of us are responsible hunters, and for that other. 10% blaze orange is not going to help,
07-24-2003, 09:48 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Adirondack Moutains USA Member since sept/02
Posts: 1,639
RE: NY hunters--blaze orange
Catskillhuntr.............real good come back?
Shaky you make a good point, but you use vehicle laws when comparing to hunting laws " mistake" . We will always have some sort of vehicle because, atleast 70% of Americans drive. Comparing vehicle laws to hunting laws doesn' t work, because whether you choose to believe it or not there are alot of people that would LOVE to see hunting STOPPED. Like I said before this is a good start for the anti' s keep passing laws that make something look unsafe and before you know it we (the hunter) won' t have to worry about hunting at all. What was your input on owning automatic weapons? I personally have no use for them, so I don' t own any, but it still should be a choice. What about these stupid a** laws about owning a pistol? I know alot of responsible people that would like to have a pistol, for the range or to hunt with, but because of the dumba** laws they won' t bother getting one. Go to the city and see who owns the pistol' s, most are illegal drug dealers.
The last I new in NY we had to take a safty coarse, in the coarse I do believe they talk about the importants of wearing orange. Once again lets make a law that says we all have to have trigger locks on until we get to where we are going to hunt, this will save on accidental shootings. Lets pass a law that says the only time you can use a call is if you are in the open or in a high treestand. Or better yet lets pass a law that says no treestands, every year there is atleast one person hurt because of a treestand. Lets pass a law about hunting to close to others, no more then 2 in a group per 20 acers. And last BUT not least lets pass the ultimate law that would save every hunter NO MORE HUNTING.................Maybe instead of pasing more and more laws, we should enforce the ones we have, and have better safty coarses.
Shaky you make a good point, but you use vehicle laws when comparing to hunting laws " mistake" . We will always have some sort of vehicle because, atleast 70% of Americans drive. Comparing vehicle laws to hunting laws doesn' t work, because whether you choose to believe it or not there are alot of people that would LOVE to see hunting STOPPED. Like I said before this is a good start for the anti' s keep passing laws that make something look unsafe and before you know it we (the hunter) won' t have to worry about hunting at all. What was your input on owning automatic weapons? I personally have no use for them, so I don' t own any, but it still should be a choice. What about these stupid a** laws about owning a pistol? I know alot of responsible people that would like to have a pistol, for the range or to hunt with, but because of the dumba** laws they won' t bother getting one. Go to the city and see who owns the pistol' s, most are illegal drug dealers.
The last I new in NY we had to take a safty coarse, in the coarse I do believe they talk about the importants of wearing orange. Once again lets make a law that says we all have to have trigger locks on until we get to where we are going to hunt, this will save on accidental shootings. Lets pass a law that says the only time you can use a call is if you are in the open or in a high treestand. Or better yet lets pass a law that says no treestands, every year there is atleast one person hurt because of a treestand. Lets pass a law about hunting to close to others, no more then 2 in a group per 20 acers. And last BUT not least lets pass the ultimate law that would save every hunter NO MORE HUNTING.................Maybe instead of pasing more and more laws, we should enforce the ones we have, and have better safty coarses.
07-24-2003, 10:05 AM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rochester NY USA
Posts: 81
RE: NY hunters--blaze orange
I agree we have to keep our guard up, but if I just can' t personally see where this will lead to trouble for us without making leaps in logic - no one shown where it lead to anything negative in other states, mauybe that info is out there, but i' m not aware of it. Also, I feel that the numbers I' ve seen suggest that I can' t assume your last statement to be true, though that is my natural inclination.
I agree that our safety record is good - that is subjective though, and certainly doesn' t mean it can' t be made better. from the DECweb page it says 85% of people wear BO anyways. and that from 92 -01, not a single person in NYS was killed because they were mistaken for game while wearing BO, but 18 that weren' t wearing BO, were killed. So thats 36 people involved in those situations, that maybe could have been prevented by a law that doesn' t hurt anyone IMO, that a large majority of the people follow anyways. If I say our record is good enough, that I' m willing to take the good with the bad in life and accept rsponsibility for my actions and fight and get this law stopped to defend my choice in the matter, then i have to accept that an average of 2 lives will end every year and two more will be devastated because they made a mistake and pulled the trigger. I' m not normally too easy on people doing stupid things like mistaking people for game, and i guess once they pull the trigger and kill someone they probably won' t hunt again, but what about the guy who was niave or macho and didn' t wear BO and is now dead or maybe the guy had a bad day and his eyes played tricks on him and now he' s killed someone. Tough thats life??? Sometimes that might be the right attitude, but i personally don' t think it is this time. Thats not how i would raise my kids or treat my friends - " hey dad, i don' t want to wear my seatl belt and drive 90 and drink a beer at the same time" -hey its your choice you' ll have to learn the hard way i guess" " hey dad i want to take drugs, open my mind, it' s my choice what to put in my body" " have at it, i' ll guess you' ll have to learn the hard way" - silly maybe, but so are some of the other things i' m reading so i figure it' s fair.
Nobody is going to be wearing cowbells, so maybe this is one of those situations where it' s best that the right thing to do is enforce a safety habit of most in favor of ' choice' . I also think its unfair to say that this law is being cast upon us from a bunch of dummies that don' t what they are talking about, otherwise so many other states wouldn' t have the law, 85% of people in NYS wouldn' t already wear it, and it wouldn' t be recommended by safety org.' s like the IHEA.
BTW, I never really thought they needed to make it a law either, but i think it' s probably best they do. If they come up with a cowbell law i promise to quit my job and fight it at all costs.
I' ll probably get shot wearing BO this year, my life is ironic like that sometimes.
Eric
I agree that our safety record is good - that is subjective though, and certainly doesn' t mean it can' t be made better. from the DECweb page it says 85% of people wear BO anyways. and that from 92 -01, not a single person in NYS was killed because they were mistaken for game while wearing BO, but 18 that weren' t wearing BO, were killed. So thats 36 people involved in those situations, that maybe could have been prevented by a law that doesn' t hurt anyone IMO, that a large majority of the people follow anyways. If I say our record is good enough, that I' m willing to take the good with the bad in life and accept rsponsibility for my actions and fight and get this law stopped to defend my choice in the matter, then i have to accept that an average of 2 lives will end every year and two more will be devastated because they made a mistake and pulled the trigger. I' m not normally too easy on people doing stupid things like mistaking people for game, and i guess once they pull the trigger and kill someone they probably won' t hunt again, but what about the guy who was niave or macho and didn' t wear BO and is now dead or maybe the guy had a bad day and his eyes played tricks on him and now he' s killed someone. Tough thats life??? Sometimes that might be the right attitude, but i personally don' t think it is this time. Thats not how i would raise my kids or treat my friends - " hey dad, i don' t want to wear my seatl belt and drive 90 and drink a beer at the same time" -hey its your choice you' ll have to learn the hard way i guess" " hey dad i want to take drugs, open my mind, it' s my choice what to put in my body" " have at it, i' ll guess you' ll have to learn the hard way" - silly maybe, but so are some of the other things i' m reading so i figure it' s fair.
Nobody is going to be wearing cowbells, so maybe this is one of those situations where it' s best that the right thing to do is enforce a safety habit of most in favor of ' choice' . I also think its unfair to say that this law is being cast upon us from a bunch of dummies that don' t what they are talking about, otherwise so many other states wouldn' t have the law, 85% of people in NYS wouldn' t already wear it, and it wouldn' t be recommended by safety org.' s like the IHEA.
BTW, I never really thought they needed to make it a law either, but i think it' s probably best they do. If they come up with a cowbell law i promise to quit my job and fight it at all costs.
I' ll probably get shot wearing BO this year, my life is ironic like that sometimes.
Eric
07-24-2003, 07:39 PM
#27
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location:
Posts: 70
RE: NY hunters--blaze orange
I remember when Maine adopted the blaze orange law over 20 years ago. We hated the idea that we had to wear the stuff, but I can say that it really has not effected our abilities to harvest deer. If anything, it is just an added edge to be able to enjoy another hunting season in one piece.
It has not stopped hunter fatalities, but I am sure that it has helped a great deal as much as I hate to admit it.
Maine for the past two years has allowed the use of blaze orange camo and you would think that hunters would flock to the stores to buy it up, but I bet I have seen no more than a a dozen hunters wearing it.
I personally like to be seen, it keeps other hunters from walking in on me while I am sitting and also makes me feel more comfortable when slipping through the woods while trying to sound like my prey!!
It has not stopped hunter fatalities, but I am sure that it has helped a great deal as much as I hate to admit it.
Maine for the past two years has allowed the use of blaze orange camo and you would think that hunters would flock to the stores to buy it up, but I bet I have seen no more than a a dozen hunters wearing it.
I personally like to be seen, it keeps other hunters from walking in on me while I am sitting and also makes me feel more comfortable when slipping through the woods while trying to sound like my prey!!
07-25-2003, 05:40 AM
#30
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Upstate New York USA
Posts: 366
RE: NY hunters--blaze orange
I noticed the langauage in the bill states any BIG GAME hunting. I assume this means you have to wear orange while bow hunting. Speaking for myself, that' s not going to happen.[:@]