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LOL, you asked for it Glew! BB is the only guy I know who probably has the AWR's memorized for the last ten years ......You ask him for data, you'll get all you want!
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....Seeing a pattern???"
Yeah. Im seeing QDMA doesnt know much and do not care that they dont. Dont do much homework or care whos doing the telling, and believe everyone has "our" best interests in mind, and we live in a Disney Move where every heart is pure and everyones happiness top priority. lol. There are also some qdma officers who have joined for one reason. Because they speak out on environmentalist issues, are hardcore enviros, and need one thing ...Legitimacy in the eyes of sportsmen and sportsmen/legislative issues. I know of one in particular that has pushed for VERY nonhunter friendly legislation on many occassions and also has refused to support some VERY good pro hunting legislation. Qdma hasnt exactly skyrocketed in Pa, and they'd take just about anyone in as regional officers. Course that may be conspiracy theory to someone who doesnt know any better....Course anyone familiar with the lady who was denied a Sw region seat on the PGC board recently, knows im not lying. |
Just curious, does anyone know if that little "yes man" group created as a sounding board to voice support for pgc and nothing else, which consisted of a handful or so people who I believe called themselves "Pa Deer Association" still exists?
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Just curious, does anyone know if that little "yes man" group created as a sounding board to voice support for pgc and nothing else, which consisted of a handful or so people who I believe called themselves "Pa Deer Association" still exists? __________________ |
That tells me that in most areas the herd wasn't reduced enough to allow regeneration and aid the habitat. You say the harvests were excessive, I say in most cases they weren't enough. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, right? One question, if the reduction was excessive and we've killed way too many deer, why didn't the forests respond? __________________ PA Forestry and Wildlife Consultants, LLC. The Pennsylvania State University . Acidic deposition, invasive species, pathogens, insect pests and poor land management also influence forest health at regional and statewide levels. These stress factors interact with each other and with deer, and generally the interactions intensify the negative effects on forest health. Acid rain is a statewide problem that has changed forest soils over the past century, lowering ph, depleting soil reserves of calcium and magnesium and increasing the availability of aluminum, which is toxic to aquatic organisms and some plants (Bailey et al. 2005). The effects of acid depositions have been most pronounced on nutrient poor soils on the unglaciated Allegheny plateau in northwestern and northcentral Pennsylvania (Horsley et al. 2000). On these soils, nutrient stress caused by acid rain, coupled with insect defoliations and drought, has caused extensive decline and mortality of sugar maple (Horsley et al. 2000). Other species, such as American beech and black cherry have shown positive growth responses under these conditions. The nutrient requirements of most forest tree species remain unknown, but consideration of soil quality will become increasingly important for forest management. Acid deposition will be an increasing challenge to the maintenance of forest productivity. Pennsylvania receives some of the highest acid deposition rates measured in the United States The effective suppression of fire since the 1920s was the underlying cause for the replacement of oaks with more shade-tolerant species (Nowacki and Abrams 2008). When frequent burning stopped, fire- sensitive tree species thrived and the forest canopy became denser. The forest floor became more shaded, cooler, wetter and less flammable. The longer fire was excluded from the forest, the more favorable conditions become for shade-tolerant species and the less favorable they become for oaks and other sun- loving, fire-tolerant species. |
One more big thumbs up to WMI for admitting that reducing the deer herd is probably not going to solve the regeneration dilemmas alone. How long have some of us been demanding that acid rain and other factors be given more relevance in our forest situation, only to have the PGC supporters try to downplay its significance. WMI made it abundantly clear that PA is at the top of the list for acid deposition, specifically the Allegheny plateau, and that coupled with modern forestry practices such as the absence of sufficient periodocal burns has contributed to poor forest health probably as much as the deer. Yet somehow, the deer receive 100% of the blame, 100% of the time, and thus became the scapegoats in this drama. Good post, BB.
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It is really unfortunate that guys point to the growth in exclosures to blame everything on the deer. Fencing clearcuts provide the specific conditions oak need to regenerate while eliminating the shade tolerant trees that developed under the closed canopy of a saw timber stand. Therefore, the regeneration in those exclosures does not represent what could be expected from a select cut where competing trees are not removed and the oak seedlings don't receive full sunlight.
I sure would like to see a study on the understory of pole timber stands that were generated by exclosures. I would be willing to bet there is little or nothing growing in the understory. |
Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3584816)
It is really unfortunate that guys point to the growth in exclosures to blame everything on the deer. Fencing clearcuts provide the specific conditions oak need to regenerate while eliminating the shade tolerant trees that developed under the closed canopy of a saw timber stand. Therefore, the regeneration in those exclosures does not represent what could be expected from a select cut where competing trees are not removed and the oak seedlings don't receive full sunlight.
I sure would like to see a study on the understory of pole timber stands that were generated by exclosures. I would be willing to bet there is little or nothing growing in the understory. And what about the unfenced clearcuts that were mostly oak before the cut that regenerate only striped maple beech and birch next to a fenced clearcut that regenerates oak very well? The only difference is D-E-E-R |
Originally Posted by Screamin Steel
(Post 3584518)
One more big thumbs up to WMI for admitting that reducing the deer herd is probably not going to solve the regeneration dilemmas alone. How long have some of us been demanding that acid rain and other factors be given more relevance in our forest situation, only to have the PGC supporters try to downplay its significance. WMI made it abundantly clear that PA is at the top of the list for acid deposition, specifically the Allegheny plateau, and that coupled with modern forestry practices such as the absence of sufficient periodocal burns has contributed to poor forest health probably as much as the deer. Yet somehow, the deer receive 100% of the blame, 100% of the time, and thus became the scapegoats in this drama. Good post, BB.
Tell me Jake,Why is the regeneration behind fenced in excloures fantastic?Is it because those fences shield out the acid rain.I'VE WALKED THROUGH NUMEROUS LIMED AREAS AND THERE IS NO DIFFERANCE IN THE REGENERATION,NONE,NADA ZILCH.You guys are so desperate for more deer that you ignore facts and spin any bit of nonsense that you can.It is univerally excepted by every expert in forestry and the habitat that deer are the primary cause for the lack of regeneration.Sure,other factors also contribute but deer do the most damage.A partial quote from some report doesn't prove otherwise. |
"And what about the unfenced clearcuts that were mostly oak before the cut that regenerate only striped maple beech and birch next to a fenced clearcut that regenerates oak very well? The only difference is D-E-E-R" :biggrin: Some might have learned a thing or two from history throughout the entire nation where deer exist. Tthat everywhere deer have existed in normal numbers, somehow we still managed to have forests.... And without ridiculous unnatural conditions behind F-E-N-C-E-S. lol. |
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