case of Pa WCO harassment?
 

I had another thread asking what a WCO can/cannot do and wanted to read the replies to that prior to posting this.
This past October during senior anterless season a WCO pulled me over on the assumtion I was road hunting and wanted to check my tags and vehicle for loaded firearms. When I explained I was merely checking my pasture fence that runs along a township road he excused himself but asked to see the rifle in the window rack of my pickup...I gladly complied an opened the action an opened the floor plate of the mdl 700 BDL 25-06..all was well until the WCO noticed the Glock mdl 19 9mm in a Fobus holster under my jacket ( I was dressed for farm work not hunting garb) he asked to see my permit to carry and I showed him my concealed weapons permit...dropped the loaded clip and opend the slide...I did not have a round chambered.....the WCO tried to tell me I couldn't have a loaded weapon in my vehicle regardless of the permit to carry a concealed weapon....I told him he'd better check the 2nd Ammendment, I'm legal and then the WCO goes off on this triade of how he thinks I'm road hunting, etc. etc. ..how ignorant is this guy to think I'm road hunting deer with a Glock 9mm?
To make a long story much shorter he detained me for 45 minutes searched my truck for signs of transporting a deer,etc and waited on the State Police to show up...when they did in less than 5 minutes I was on my way.
Don't they teach these wanna be's about the 2nd Ammendment down in Harrisburg anymore?
Three times later last fall this same WCO followed me to town,from one farm of mine to another, and parked an watched as I cut corn for 3 hours...I saw him looking at me with binos I know 'cause I was looking at him thru mine!

Wow,you certainly have poor luck.I think it's terrible that any law enforcement officer would pick on an 83 year old guy.

Did you contact a supervisor? File a formal complaint?
Radio logs would be easy to verify. A few things I dont understand,

1, Assuming your right handed how in the world did he notice a concealed gun under a jacket?

2, After he noticed the gun, Why did he let you handle it? (drop mag and lock slide) ?

There is no wanna be's as WCO's much easier to get hired by a police Dept than by the PGC. 50 weeks of training and multiple classes in Constitutional Law, which must be passd at 100%. Violate someones Constitutional rights and the Officer is on he hook personally for a lawsuit.

PM me his name and I will call him.

Did you get that PM yet?

RWJ did you get the PM, titled WCO?
FTR I'm somewhat handicapped from a farming accident and wear my holster as a cross draw, he dropped the clip after pulling the pistol an placed it on the hood of his truck with my rifle

no PM yet, box is empty

I'll resend I have dial up here in the woods an half the time the pages don't load fast enough and it times out.

That's strange. I wonder why a PM would take longer to load than a regular post?

BT apparently you don't have dial up...do you have any idea how long it takes to even load Huntingnet's site to begin with ...consider all links/advertisement that need to be loaded...anyway I resent the PM to RWJ not that it's any of your business.
and as of 9:55 RWJ hasn't responded

Why'd you get your panties in a bunch? I made a simple observation. No, I dont have dial up now but have had it in the past. Sure it's slow. I just mentioned that it's strange that a PM would take longer than a post. As far it being my business, this is a public forum and you started the thread. You made it the business of anyone who reads this thread.

I think a lot of folks here would love to hear both sides of this story. So now we're all patiently waiting to hear what happens........

I was under the impression this thread was about the actions taken by a wco and not on who has dial up and who dos'nt.THAT B.S GETS SO OLD.

The thread was about a claim of harassment. The WCO present asked for the name of the alleged offender. At this point the dial up issue seems to be an excuse as to why the info is not forthcoming. It is the business of every reader of this thread to know whether it is a valid claim or simply internet propaganda.

that's some assumption you got there livbucks using words like excuse/propoganda is in FACT BS ! Whether or not I PM RWJ is none of your business at all..it's called a PRIVATE MESSAGE..you know what P.R.I.V.A.T.E. means don't you???? If I wanted you to know I'd just post it here on the open thread THEN you have a right to know what is written until then you get to read what i do post here or just skim by the thread completely!
But yes I have sent it and did recieve a PRIVATE message in reply from RWJ when I want you to read that PRIVATE message I'll post the contents of it here on the thread!!! Until then keep you accusations to yourself!!!!!!!!

Potterco, check your PM's , I had a question

Potter, you are way off base. I was replying to shedman as to the topic of discussion. The question was whether you followed through. The rest is between you and RWJ.

Starting to think there most probably is at least 2 sides to this story.

Not to sound totally naieve but what does WCO stand for. In NY we call them DEC officer{dept. of enviormental conservation}

WCO=Wildlife Conservation Officer

got ya......thanks

As a former deputy WCO ('71-'75) I can tell you this sort of thing has happened and this sort of question has been asked thousands of times in the last 40 yrs I am aware of( even before Al Gore invented the internet). That said I think your WCO was barking up the wrong tree in all kinds of areas, despite his 52 weeks of training. The question here is 'intent'. If you are dressed in blue bibs and are obviously farming then the rifle in your window and the gun in your armpits has no bearing on your intent. He can see you farming, your neighbors can see you farming, your wife can see you farming. If you are dressed so and stick your rifle out the window then you have a legal problem.

Now had you been dressed in blaze orange bibs and orange hat and vest the whole picture changes. Seriously I think your WCO friend needs to bark up another tree and quit harassing a farmer. He is supposed to work with landowners not against them. Not that all landowners are saints, but you see my point. Perhaps he could catch some crooks. Or even a poacher. IMHO.

A lil history: You know it used to be in PA that a cop could not search a vehicle without a warrant. And the practice at that time was for the PSP or any local policeman to call a game warden to get it done, as at that time, game wardens could search your vehicle without a warrant. All he had to tell the gw was I think this guy has a deer in the trunk. I am sure it must be all different now, since all police powers are expanded and deputy sheriffs can really arrest people instead of just being wards of the court.

Go see the PGC regional LES for your area and talk to him about your game warden problem, maybe even meet with the gw in the LES's office.

And good luck.

Now heres some prime information from a man who knows,,,and he has no hidden agenda,,,follow the instructions ,,and i think the problem is solved!

Hmmmmmmmmm!

Hmmmmmmmmm!

It wasnt WCO Bodenhorn, I just know he is in Elk County, The same County that this took place. The name that Potterco gave me I did not recognize.

I misread the PM its Sullivan County. Elk Township, So Bodenhorn is the wrong person to ask. I am still working on it

At first I thought this incident took place in ELK county, I contacted the WCO there and the name that Potterco gave me didnt match the WCO's, Then WCO Bodenhorn responded to me that they had no DWCO's by That name, I then realized that Potterco's PM said Sillivan County Elk Twp, I looked up Sullivan County and they have no ELk Township but do have an Elkland Township, I contact the WCO there WCO Finnegan, WCO Finnegan only has two DWCO and thier name doesnt match the name provided to me by Potterco.

I am not sure who Potterco came in contact with that day but it wasnt a PGC WCO or DWCO.

Great. Not only do we have the standard crazies out there posing as cops, which is a felony to impersonate a police officer, but now we have folks impersonating WCO's and deputies! I actually had something kind of similar a few years ago hunting pheasnats on a co-op farm. A guy canme up and started harrassing me wanting to know if I had permission (which i did), then he wanted to see my license. i asked to see his badge and he about had a conniption. Turns out he was just a local guy that helped coordinate stockings with the landowner. Had no more legal authority than Al Sharpton. I threatened to report him to the WCO, because he clearly was trying to represent himself as someone with authority. I knew the landwoner and did menion the incident to him, which he apologized for. Turns out the moron was just upset because he had to share hunting for all those stocked birds that he was hoping to have all to his own private little party of hunters and dogs. he never actually calimed to be a WCO or a deputy, but as far as I know, no one else has authority to be checking licenses, ect., and the landowner hadn't authorized him to patrol his property or anything of the like.

It happens more than you think, When I was in the South Central I had a guy running around posing, I also had reports last year of a guy in Palmer Park here in Washington claiming to be a DWCO and checking licenses. I went there several times in my personal vehicle and regular hunting clothes but was never approached by anyone.
Thats one of the reasons I always say contact a WCO or supervisor if you have an odd encounter.

BTW all WCO's/DWCO are required to have the PGC issued ID on them while working, in or out of uniform.

I dont know what or who the OP met with that day maybe an Officer from another agency?

I teach Hunter Education Classes for the State of Wisconsin and am certified instructor.

We teach our students that if a Person asking to see your license. you have the right to ask to see their License/Badge. before presenting your license to them. And this question with a demonstration is a required test question on the "hands on portion of the test".

If they don't do that or come up with some excuse why (As the Conservation Officer may not be wearing a uniform) is to politley decline to show the license required. We teach the student to make sure they are polite but do get a good description, even a back tag number, and a description of the vehicle if they can and just walk away.

JW

WCO's / DWCO's will sometime work in regular clothes, but are supposed to always have the agency ID on them while working. Badge and PGC issued ID card

Potterco claims that the state police were called to the scene. Wouldnt they catch on to a poser? And how would a poser have radio capabilty to call the state police? He al tells us that this guy followed or watched hm several more times. That'd be pretty risky business for an imposter. Of course it also doesnt make sense for a real WCO or DWCO to spend that much time on someone who's doing no wrong. Something in this story just doesnt seem to add up.

WCO's or DWCo cannot call the state police by radio. They have a secure channel, unless it was on a tactical channel.

All I know is that the name provided to me by Potterco, doesnt match any of the names for WCO's or DWCO in the two counties. I encouraged him to contact a supervisor.

Radio transmissions are recorded so it would be easy to determine by a supervisor who stopped him if it was in fact a PGC employee

WCO RWJ,

Is it a normal occurence for you guys to even get the SP involved in the kind of situation Potterco describes? And wouldnt it be quite likely they'd catch an imposter?

No we dont call PSP or anybody on a regular basis, usually have to have some mitigating things going on to call the locals. PSP would only catch a imposter if they checked ID and I am assuming they would if the guy wasnt in uniform. From Potterco's post it sounds like he knows this guy and has seen him before.
Another thing I dont understand is if this happened in October why wait till now to post? Most folks would be so flippin mad they would post right away.

I was away visiting family over the holiday weekend until this morning and this is the first I've sat down at the computer. RWJ had indeed contacted me an I supplied what I recall of the incidents. Rich says he contacted Sullie's WCO and no one of the name I gave him is aboard...fine with me...I didn't have the exact spelling of the name to begin with not RWJ's fault nor mine.
I hadn't filed a report at the time 'cause I figure when a hornet stings you why disturbe the entire nest...best just to let the hornet land on some fly paper himself....A new hunting season isn't that long in coming an when I'm down there doing some farm business this year I'll have a video camera with me...then we'll get to the bottom of this. Until then I'll continue my crusade to stop the killing off of too many does in my wmu.
*edited to add thanks to Rich for making an effort to check into it...like I said a country boy knows how to get a pay back done...I didn't get this old by being dumb!

Potterco, I would ask for a name and then talk to a supervisor. WCO Finnegan is the WCO for Sullivan County. Might want to give him a call.

Potterco...You say you didn't get this old by being dumb..??..

Then you tell us that this big bad fish cop has been harrassing you, and you dont' know his name or his badge number...

Well, I was born at night, but it wasn't last night...

Sounds to me like you are either dumber than a box of rocks, or you are blowing smoke...

:mad: sounds to me like you're a little puke trying to play with the big boys..grow up an address me with respect and I'll answer you.

I really don't care if you answer me or not...

You come on this forum making all kinds of vague allegations without any facts to back them up..

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to get your ducks in a row....