Eastern Forests Are Growing Faster
02-09-2010, 03:25 AM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Are you trying to say that an industry that employs 100,000+ and owns much of the land where we hunt should just let their preferred forest species disappear and just go back to raising deer in quantity so you can shoot your spike each year?
02-09-2010, 03:28 AM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
All of that can applied to Pa as well.It's no secret that oak needs some advanced regeneration and both ethe PGC and DCNR do a good job managing for those conditions
02-09-2010, 03:59 AM
#53
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 297
No one said it was.It doesn't matter though,the area inside the fence regenerated because it wasn't being browsed.The outside did not fail because of soil,competing vegitation,lack of light or acid rain.It failed because the deer browsed it all.That's what happens when you have poor habitat in the surrounding area.
02-09-2010, 04:41 AM
#54
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Maybe that photo should be explained more thoroughly.....
Inside fence, no deer
Outside fence, deer
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that all other factors are equall. Same canopy, same soil type , same climate, same amount of acid rain, etc etc etc ........
This is your chance to show us what you know about forestry Maverick. What "other factors" could there be?
I suppose that fence would keep bears and mountain lions out too
02-09-2010, 05:06 AM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
If you got less deer and they are only targeting the hardwood sprouts what is the forest going to be mainly consisted of?
Junk trees and shrubs.
You let these grow and they will block the sun that is needed for plant life.
Now you got more fast growing maples than you ever had before.
Now tell me this?
How do you plan on getting rid of the over abundance and dominant species of maples if the deer herd is reduced so much that they can now be picky about what they eat because there is no competiton over the best browse?
The maples will continue to grow without any predation on that plant from the deer and the target species now is the hardwoods and the junk trees get to grow and choke out the rest of the forest floor.
I allready told douge that and he cant understand it.
Junk trees and shrubs.
You let these grow and they will block the sun that is needed for plant life.
Now you got more fast growing maples than you ever had before.
Now tell me this?
How do you plan on getting rid of the over abundance and dominant species of maples if the deer herd is reduced so much that they can now be picky about what they eat because there is no competiton over the best browse?
The maples will continue to grow without any predation on that plant from the deer and the target species now is the hardwoods and the junk trees get to grow and choke out the rest of the forest floor.
I allready told douge that and he cant understand it.
None of that changes the fact that the existing habitat can only support so mnay deer without further damage.One the habitat gets as poor as it is in many places,it takes far less deer to continue to have an impact on it.You seem to think that nothing will frow under a closed canopy.That simply isn't true.There are many species that do just fine under a closed canopy.It just so happens that oak isn't one of them.
02-09-2010, 05:09 AM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
You're wrong.I can show wuite a few areas where the advanced oak regeneration is just fine.They have a very hard time getting it in the lower elevations where the deer migrate to during bad winters.If they fence these areas or if the winters are mild,the deer spread out and use more of the available habitat,allowing those areas to regenerate.When we have just one or two bad winters following a timber sale or sheltwood cut,the cuts on the high ridgtops don't get toched and they regenerate just fine.The areas in the lowlands get hammered unless their fenced.
02-09-2010, 05:12 AM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
You guys are in such denial it's ridiculous.THAT ENTIRE AREA WAS CUT AND HALF WAS FENCED.BOTH SIDE RECIEVED THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATER,LIGHT AND ACID RAIN.The only thing the unfenced side had that the fenced side did not have was deer.It's that simple and there's hundreds of areas just like that which proves without any doubt how much of a limiting factor the deer are.
02-09-2010, 05:15 AM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
They only try to get oak regeneration where there's already an overstory of oak.They spray invasive species,do shelterwood cuts and fence the deer out where appropriate.They spend millions trying to regenerate the existing canopy of oak where appropriate.Their only solution is not just reducing the deer herd.That's one component and by you saying that they only reduce the herd is a flat out lie.
02-09-2010, 05:16 AM
#59
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
This is your chance to show us what you know about forestry Maverick. What "other factors" could there be?
02-09-2010, 05:24 AM
#60
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Their only solution is not just reducing the deer herd.That's one component and by you saying that they only reduce the herd is a flat out lie.
There are many species that do just fine under a closed canopy.It just so happens that oak isn't one of them.