Pa hunters need to form a TEA PARTY
 

Pa hunters have seen what Tea Party did to the high and mighty Democrats now time has come to form our own TEA PARTY and demand action from our Legislators!
* DEMAND Legislators to take over the PGC and restore deer numbers where habitat will support them
* DEMAND no anterless permits/hunts outside of over populated areas...such as Philly, for 2 years
**** Do not buy another BACK TAG until this folly of a herd reduction is dropped...the PGC cannot operate without cash..HIT THEM where it hurts!!!!!!!!!!

Who are you going to recruit for this reveloution, The same hunters who buy every tag they can get their hands on and when they cant fill every one, complain how they are getting the shaft.

I'm pushing for no one to buy a hunting lisc. at all next year 2010...if only 5% don't buy one the PGC will be on it's knees!
Good point though about meat hunters...they buy 1/2 dz tags in 5C and fill them all and they're kids and buddies do the same...then keep the loins and feed the meat to their dogs!I work with 2 guys like that...


Watch the name calling!

JW

Then the DNCR will be calling the shots. I don't think we really want that. The best thing to do is don't partisipate in the HR if that is the goal for next season. Unfourtanely, asking some hunters to refrain from filling multiple tags is like setting a bag of illegal drugs on a table and telling a drug addict not to shoot up. Its not going to happen.

Sounds like a great Plan.Let the legislators take over.Why not?It works good in New Jersey.

Only the legislators can cure what ails us currently.

As for dcnr/dnr type system...Its not my first choice, but not one i fear. It works all across the nation. Its also not the only alternative.

1st choice? Restructure the existing pgc.

If any company alienated it's customers like the PGC has theirs it would be near bankruptcy too!
It's time we whom finance them DEMAND our will be had, if that means bringing the PGC to it's knees so be it.
I ask this : How much worse could it be with another agency at the helm?

If you havent already, Id strongly urge you to start by emailing these reps on the house fish & game committee, and having anyone and everyone you know do likewise by emailing them writing or calling. Tell them you dont support a fee increase for pgc, tell them why, and some things youd like to see to fix this situation. Some pretty good people on that committee and its up to them to permit that fee increase. They will also have to be instrumental in just about any fixing of our situation.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...?cde=18&body=H

The problem with that is we are not customers, we are a wildlife management tool that pays to manage the wildlife for the state. If hunters don't do it, it will get done by other means and we will be out of the equation. I don't think it is in our best interest not to be part of the wildlife management of this state.

Actually Pats, I think we're kinda both. For now that is. We are the tools that provide management but right now we pay the bills too. If we refuse to pay the bills and at the same time resist helping manage the deer properly we could well find ourselves on the outside looking in. Starving the PGC into taking general funds or being absorbed into DCNR will just give the naysayers more of what they already don't like. I really wish they could see past the fact that they have to work a little harder to see a deer.

It would be hard to convince the ones used to seeing 30 deer a day or tagging out by 9 oclock on the first day to work a little harder for their deer. That would be like taking the food stamps from a lifelong welfare receipent and telling them to go get a job. They don't want to hear that.:sad0064:

BT do you know how much you sound like the PGC themselves with comments like your last one? I have killed a buck every year since 1936 some years it was right after first light opening day of rifle season, others the very last afternoon of archery season...matter of fact the last 22 were killed with a recurve bow sans the very last one that I used a crossbow .
Not everyone whom is calling for heads to roll in Harrisburg is a 1 day a season wonder and that's what some of you seem to think they are.

Wow,While I disagree with everything you're saying,I gotta give you credit for killing a buck with a recurve for 22 consequtive years up until at least age 85.That's truly something to admire regardless of your stance on deer management.

First of all, congratulations on your success with the recurve. Thats an accomplishment that few can match. Having been a recurve hunter for a lot of years before moving to the compound, I can fully respect the level of accomplishment. :cool2:

If it sounded like I was talking about you with that last post of mine, I was not. Nor was I talking about any single hunter. I was talking about the most prevalent characteristics of the average opponent of the current deer plan based on the sum total of my experiences and observations from interacting with several of those folks. Some guys here fit into that generalization, some dont. You obviously dont. When I talk to a guy like Many Spurs or Germain who are obviously dedicated seasoned hunters, they dont fit that profile either. We've had a guy on here who complains incessantly about not seeing deer but he also claims he doesn't need to rethink his hunting tactics or scout any more.... HE FITS! Of the guys I see and hear in person that are complaining the most at the grocery store the gas station and the taverns in deer country, it really fits!

Generalizing about a ones experience with a group of folks will always include someone or leave someone out that shouldnt be.

It's not unlike your saying that I sound like the PGC. I have lots of issues with them and can suggest lots of things they can do better IMHO.

pats please explain how the state of PA. could manage the herd without the hunters of PA?? This kind of attitude is what P O 's me the most, its like having someone mow your lawn for free every week because they enjoy cutting grass and then smacking them in the face for their efforts. Pike

in Pa? is it mostly private land? or public? cause here in Texas, i hand it to the land owners for keeping our herds going. the land owners need to supplement the land..not the government.

if its public lands...just need to close them for 5 years and wammo..more deer....how many of you guys would accept not hunting for 5 years so your great great great grand kids have somethin to hunt?

DougE yes I'm an old bugger for sure but not 85 only 83 , my father lied my age and got me my first tag @ age 10. An I've killed a buck each year since. To date I have killed 31 bucks with my recurve , 2 bull moose, 8 black bears, 1 bull elk and numerous small game.
Darn pitty I've seen Pa fall from the ranks of superb deer hunting to the mess it is today. I've also watched as the PGC gained respect as a game department thruout the country . A Dept. that many states modeled their own resource offices after,only to see them become the laughing stock of those same states today....question my statement there??? Just look at the crossbow fiasco that took place last year....have you seen any results from the supposed unbias deer count/survey??? Even after the meetings that just ended those figures that were supposed to be released then weren't WONDER WHY?????????? Because the PGC is wrong and they know it!!!

I'll be dead soon enough and until the past decade I had pride in the PGC but now I'll take the shame of being a resident here an seeing what they did to the deer herd to my grave instead.....something for the PGC to be real proud of isn't it???????

I still disagree with your point of view but give you a huge amount of respect for what you've continued to do.

I'm aware of a deer audit but not of a deer count/survey.The results of the audit will be published shortly.

An just what do you think the audit was? Also would you like to make odds that the rank n file hunters have no faith in what will be reported in that audit by a group whom was to have no ties to the PGC...only to be found out they did/do?

What really burns me about these bufoons on the Board is not that they wish to restore habitat where needed by lowering deer numbers but using that as an excuse to glean funds from anterless permits in lieu of an increase in back tags fees...then not admitting it when confronted with hunters whom are able to see the continued HR in areas of good habitat ...and being told they need to scout new areas and/or hunt harder.
I've been a hard hunter all my life but the last 8-10 yrs if I didn't have a family farm that is private to hunt I canassure you there wouldn't be huntable numbers of deer on it

The audit has nothing to do with counting deer or determining how many deer we have.The Auit was to find out if the science the PGC is using is sound.

I don't see how anyone can say any increase in antklerless lisences is an excuse to get more money.You need to understand the facts instead of jumping to conclusions.The antlerless tags cost 6 bucks a piece.It costs money to print and process them.The county treasurers also get $1 for each of them.So now you have the PGC making just a little more than 4 bucks a piece.That's still not the whole story either.$2.25 FROM EACH TAG IS MANDATED BY THE LEGISLATURE TO BE USED FOR HABITAT IMPROVEMENT.tHAT BENEFITS US AND THE GAME,NOT THE pgc.The reality is the PGC gets to put just a little more than 2 bucks in their general fund from each lisence sold.That's a small drop in the bucket.

I live in 2G myself.I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I've yet to find any place that has good habitat to have unhuntable numbers of deer.

$2.00 x an average over 10 years of 900,000 per year = $18 million now that's a sizeable amount of cash in anyones cofers. Especially when one thinks "if" the PGC got what they wanted, a the $5 per tag rate hike, it equals almost 1/2 of that...and that was their pie in the sky beyond their wildest hopes request.
and the audit was indeed to see if their science was valid or not...duh if #'s need to be lowered to the extent they were to maintain/rebuild habitat.
Sonny go back to skool an impress your playmates cause the men who've been around the game alot longer than you know just what it is the PGC is doing..the Gov't did it back in FDR's day to...errr they tried for awhile til he was booted out at election time...problem is we don't have a say in the bufoons on the Board anymore...hence PROBLEM

First of all,I don't care if you're older than dirt or not.Don't talk down to me like I'm in high school.Furthermore,if you're going to tell me to go back to school,you should learn how to spell first.I've treated you with respect up to this point.I can't help it if you don't like the facts I've posted.

For someone to say that any increase in antlerless allocations is a way for the PGC to make money would have to factor in the amount of lisences that were increased.Since,the usual allocations prior to herd reduction were between 500000-600000,the amount of money they make on any increase is small.

Doubtful it will happen, and probably not on any large scale.

You can get poll data that demonstrates that even hunters in states with near record deer harvests aren't completely satisfied with the states' management policies. In fact, I recall a poll here on HNI that was asking deer hunters in different states to rate their satisfaction with deer management in that area. The last time i looked at the poll, satisfaction in Pennsylvania was low, but rated higher than states like Indiana, Illinois, and Tennessee where quality of deer hunting is pretty much at an alltime high.

Deer hunters just tend to want to complain about anything and everything. So, it is one thing to check the box on some computer poll saying that you are dis-satisfied with deer hunting; it is another thing entirely to actually put significant effort into going out and trying to do something about it, especially when you have a freezer full of venison. :confused0024:

Theres not a single state in the nation with as much dissent as pas hunters currently. Not one.

All time low satisfaction for the state as well.

Every poll shows it. The lawsuit shows it. The deer plan leader needing to wear a bullet proof vest & bodyguards showed it. The legislators all pulling their own hair out because of all the negative correpsondence shows it. The legislators preventing the fee increase & forcing an audit shows it. The nationally known "deer wars" shows it.


I also recall a poll on here rating the worst state in the nation and pa won hands down.

Not sure what more the level of disgust could be proven other than if maybe Jesus himself came down on a cloud and said so on worldwide Tv. :D

Mighty funny how only about 1/100th as many were doing so in Pennsylvania prior to this "plan". lol. Just a coincidence i guess.

LOL Might be the first time I saw Doug get pizzed.

You mean like the previous pgc executive director being the chairman of the company? Or the ex duputy executive director & others being on staff of the auditor? Or the fact pgc has had a healthy working relationship with the company including in regards to the current deer management plan? Seems those who picked the company thought they were geniuses and everyone else would be too dumb to do even the most basic research on the company. Anything stated by this audit will be taken with "a grain of salt" by hunters who are aware of the situation & legislators have been informed and are not blind to it now either.

I'm not sure how much stock one should put into this audit.I'll wait until the results are published before reserving any opinions.It definately appeared to be a stacked deck in the PGC's favor but lets not forget that the PGC didn't pick what company would be doing the audit.

I agree pgc didnt pick the auditor doug. But they might as well have. The legislators who have been trying to get pgc to change the deer plan arent the ones who researched and picked them. The pgc friendly ones set the groundwork for the audit. Enviromentalists Levdansky & co. They have supported the deer plan all along and continue to at all costs. There is some pretty good video of him at a speaking engagement, speaking out in favor of alternate funding via the marcellus tax with representatives from some rabidly antideer groups from Pa. They also have been trying to get them that license fee increase despite not enough support from the others, and he also has been pushing for years for that alternate funding pgc is begging for.

Though Levdansky did have a funny meltdown the other day going into a tirade about the system being screwed up, because noone supports the fee increase, and he hadnt been able to find alternate funding.

I buy a back tag every year rather than the lifetime combo because I felt why no add my cash to the PGC if I can afford it ...but I've bought my last tag of any sort in Pa last year...those boobs don't have my support and they're going to need to trail me around my place to see if I am hunting without one...just to pizz them off!

Oh yes, and put politicians who have no clue about the biology of the game or environment in charge, all they'll do is push their big anti gun, anti hunting agenda. That's real smart.

If I thought it would help to bring deer numbers back I'd put Monkey Boy at the head of the PGC

You know, threads like this constantly remind me of how most "hunters" in this state have lost site of the fact of why we "hunt" period.

Do I support a license fee increase? Not really. Where is my money going? What is it used for? However, if they did raise the fee, it is money well spent for me. I hunt, a lot and paying the 50 some dollars I do now for all my tags, etc., sure beats sitting at home or at a bar and is pretty cheap "entertainment" for me. Spread that 50 dollars across three months. You do the math.

Sure, I'm not overly joyed by the declining deer numbers we're seeing and I feel that something will eventually have to give. I think the AR's have helped quite a bit across the state and want to see that continue.

But the guys that are on here, day in and day out complaining that they're not seeing the deer they used to, the PGC is corrupt, etc.,....save your 50 dollars and go to the grocery store and buy beef. I seriously doubt that any of us will starve if we don't get a deer or multiple deer each year.

I think the PGC has issues and I believe that some of the DMP is flawed and really needs looked at. However, I love hunting and will continue to buy a license each season and hit the woods.

Muzzy you have every right to your opinions and I agree with several of them but you need to remember that others have as much right to theirs as well. We all love to hunt an enjoy the outdoors and most of the sportsmen/women I know never gripe about the cost of a back tag and all the add ons. What they do gripe about is the fact the the PGC does not listen to the majority of sportsmen in the state when we tell them there are problems. they blow us off as half baked lazy bums who frequent bars by noon opening day of hunting season and cry in our beer. Granted some do that but what about the rest of us? Shouldn't we have a say if we don't feel the PGC has taken the HRs too far in some areas? Shouldn't we voice our opinions too? Shouldn't we feel betrayed by Board Commisioners whom are now appointed to the position rather than voted in by the sportsmen to represent us...you remember "US" the rank n file whom pay the bills day in and day out only to have the PGC listen to other orgs not putting one cent into the pot?
The fact the PGC needs rate hikes isn't questioned by most, but were now using it to get what we want...just as other orgs such as dcnr has done as well.

When were the BOC's ever voted in by the sportsmen?

I think he was saying they SHOULD be, and i agree.

He said they're NOW being appointed.when weren't they?