Ahh, gotcha. Ive never read any studies that show bucks travel more when you have a low deer density. So I pretty much agree. I believe I can understand the thought process that would lead someone to believe that, but ive never seen a study on it. Most studies more favor buck/doe ratio than density concerning breeding period. And even then most are inconclusive.

I didn't say they run themselves ragged because they have no doe. I said they run themselves ragged because there's fewer doe. And it does hold water because at 8DPSFM it only makes sense that a buck will be finding fewer does to breed and therefore will travel more to breed. I know I would.:deer:

OK, fewer doe, I shouldn't have said none. The fact still remains that certain bucks will run themsleves down in the rut when there are too few doe, too many doe or a perfect balance. I've seen and or harvested bucks that were grotesquely run down in all three types of situation. On the other hand, studies have also shown that some mature bucks simply don't bother breeding whether there are too few, to many or just enough. Based on recent research, It's beginning to seem like it's more about the individual personality of the deer than anything else.

Well...I hit Toms Butcher Shop in Galeton 4-5 times during the 2 week firearms season to look things over. Most of these bucks are pretty slim in the back fat department. My eyes tell me no lies.

I remember what kind of shape our bucks were in prior to the Alt Brainwashing Experiment, and I see what kind of shape they are in these days. Discernable difference.

No arguement there. It's always been that way..... OOPS, I guess I shouldn't use words like always. (Liable to get hit with some flying bird dung for that one) I will just say that it's been that way in all the 40 years I've been deer hunting

Can't agree. I've always had to take plenty of back fat off the bucks that I've harvested during the firearms season. Not since the Alt Brainwashing Experiment started have I seen bucks with so little fat.:s8:

And that tells me that they aren't going into the winter in as good a shape as they should.:s8:

Agree with that. They need some fat reserves to make the winter and it's more critical up your way. Actually, some of the worst, meaning leanest, bucks I've seen have been in 2B but then they've always been the older more mature bucks as well and were probably the dominant breeders in their area. Just curious, are you seeeing the phenomenon across all age classes, or is it mostly the 2 1/2 and older bucks?

I realize we're in different parts of the state but I think 2F is similar at least to some parts of 2G and the 2F deer I've seen over the years have always been the leanest, on average within their age class, I've seen over the years. I'm not doubting what your seeing but we're not seeing it over my way.

how can that be? The deer in 2G should have more than twice as much food as they did 10 years ago and should be fat as pigs.

I'm going out on a limb here BB but I'm guessing manyspurs is saying the bucks are running themselves ragged looking for doe.
The very few there are.