jaybez101099

I think the way things are ran in P.A. is destroying our quality of hunting. We had 13 people hunting and a few more groups we have got to know over the years. And it's everyones feeling that the total number of deer seen is at all time lows. In our camp one 8point...3does(1button buck). Total deer seen between 13 people around 30. And alot were seen by all so those numbers could have been maybe 15 different animals. P.A. needs to put the Doe harvest on hold for a few years and let the herd get larger. I know what a few will say ....your camp added to the problem. No argument from me... I didn't harvest a Doe even though I had my chances. But as things go people say to hell with it and shot little deer anyway. I don't see how it can get better without changes. I am really thinking about spending my time and money in V.A. hunting and stopping a 25year tradition in P.A.
Chuck

30-06 deerslayer

I agree pa needs to at least go back to the 3 days of doe for a couple of years. the problem is the pgc. is not going to admit they over did it with there antler restriction program by going to a 2 week anything goes.where do they think the big bucks they want to create come from bucks, no your doe population.that is why I also hunt ohio.yes if possible I can shoot 3 doe and 1 buck in my area in ohio but, 2 of those tags have to be used up before the gun season and only 1 week of gun season with a shotgun which has to be plugged for 3 shells only.we had over 1 million hunters in pa every year with alot of people who where able to shoot the buck of their choice.we now have 830,000 hunters a year and dropping with people complaining about not even seeing all these big bucks gary alt said would be running around in pa woods.
you will still get archery hunters who don't hunt gun say they like the new program but, many have private land to hunt on.try hunting on game lands and say the same thing about how great antler restrictions are and how many deer you see.a game warden after the 1st day here in my area 1b stated on tv at a butcher shop for deer that the kill was down but, the deer have become secretive and hunters have got to change their hunting habits.he would not tell me that face to face as I have hunted for 47yrs now and we put on drives and do not push out the deer we use to.lucky to see 2 or 3 together.it is time for all hunters who think our pa herd is down to it's lowest ever to take back our hunting rights and have a choice of which deer we choose to harvest.gary alt tried to make pa a big buck state only for the revenue he thought out of state hunters would bring and it failed.why do you think gary alt is no longer around.

pahunter60

amen to that, i agree with everything you said

livbucks

Yes, the numbers are lower. I think that HR was compounded by the explosion of bear and coyote and bobcat numbers, and the fawn crop is getting obliterated when they drop in the spring. There is so much bear and yote sign at my camp it is scary. I would not want to be a fawn born in those woods. The hunters have been totally absent for the last 4 years or so, and we don't shoot does at camp, so something is keeping the numbers down and it isn't a human factor at this point. If this is what you see in your areas, lay off the does if you can restrain yourself.

germain

Good post liv,I've witnessed the same thing.

bluebird2

Remember Alt told us that ARs would shorten the breeding window and that would reduce predation? I suppose he forgot about the effects of HR!!!

germain

Yep he never took predators into consideration with HR....no way.But then we knew he's an idiot.

the outsider

Hunters that have it good now will probably change their tune years from now. I predict that one of two things will happen:

1) Hunting in Pa will no longer exist due to lack of interest and/or pressure from non-hunting groups and increased posting.
2) Their paradise will be lost because other hunters from areas with minimal deer densities will encroach on their areas, causing increased pressure and reduced densities. In addition, more posting will occur.

Just my thoughts.

Item 2 was the cause of my paradise lost in Berks county years ago.

jaybez101099

Are there any numbers floating around on the amount of game these predators take in a given year? Where we hunt I did see a bear on opening day, but as far as coyotes never heard or seen one.

ManySpurs

I don't know. But today I walked my butt off along a 4 year old clearcut figuring just maybe I might cut some tracks in the snow. I did. I cut the tracks of 3 seperate deer, and each one of them had coyote tracks on top of them.

Make no mistake about it, Gary Alt & Co knew full well that once they got the herd numbers below a certain point, that predators would control the herd. This plan was well orchestrated and they played us like a violin.