DOUG, I said this to myself and others.If I could walk and not be in a wheelchair taking a deer in my area would be to easy. I actually felt that way last year. Thee days and I seen 71 deer.I hunt alone and must wait for the exact conditions to shoot. I cant be chasing deer all over them steep hills. I must wait for the deer to be on one of the stone private drives , no more then 50 yards and use a cannon so it falls right down. And it still seemed to easy , I admit that.Last year in that snow and icestorm the buck I shot ran about 30 yards up a steep hill and dropped dead. I crawled on my belly up the hill and pushed the deer down to the road and then I rolled down. That was tough , but still finding a deer seems to easy. But I own a big chunk of property and short of Quiting hunting thats the way it will be. I had others from the state say they have a good deer pop but not as many as I see. I have never drove my 2 mile driveway without seeing a deer or went the 15 miles to town without seeing deer. Infact Several times while getting gas at a stop and go deer walked right across the lot in the middle of the day. I actually seen deer laying on peoples yard and one time on a persons porch right along a county asphalt road. Just drive I-79 between Morgantown and Charlestown in the rut around 3am to daylight down right dangerous.I have already counted over 100 deer just standing on the side of the road on that stretch. One night I stayed at a motel 8 off I-79 at a small strip mall and a herd of deer were walking down the sidewalk in front of krogers.I spent my lifes savings because there are so many animals in the area .When I want to see game and no people I just lock myself behind my gate and vegetate.I only ever took one person from Pa with me just to see my place. He being from deerless pa doubted me ,made fun of me also. His mouth just hung open the whole time and kept saying LOOK there and there ,oh my God deer everywhere. A real shock for him. Thats all he talks about since. I know of one deer that hangs around the peoples yard and will come right up to them when they are under their pic nic pavillion.NOT IN MY COUNTY, They put a orange collar on it so all the neighbors dont shoot it. Its like a pet and lives in the wild. Other then in the 60s in Pa I have never seen so many deer,thats why I spend my time there. I did spend over 3000 dollars this past year on deer pellets for the feeders and hundreds of dollars for fence around my garden. Gardens just dont survive there. Anyone who puts out a garden has fence around it. I am sure some areas are not as populated as mine, but it took me 3 years of traveling searching across the state for a area like that. You doudt me, I dont care, you dont have that many deer in your area, sorry, but stop shooting so many. I enjoy living in a zoo. I might not even hunt this year,who knows ,I admit I am becoming a softy. Its not that important to me anymore to kill something. I just enjoy my zoo. I really dont understand how anyone can drive thru that state without seeing deer anytime. I stayed at that Stonewall jackson state park one night. And they do allow hunting there. Holy schmolly deer everwhere. The golfers had to chase the deer off the greens to put.

Deer densities like that are irresponsible and unnessesary.Undoubtedly,that wil come to bite you in the rear someday.We had way to many deer for way too long in Pa.As a result,we have some of the most hoprrible habitat around and it will take years to fix.It not only effects deer.It effects other wildlife and yes,it effects the thousands of jobs and millions of dollars the timber industry.

There is absolutely no reason that a person has to see 70 plus deer in a couple days time period.It's flat out stupid and any professional wildlife manager woud agree.

I live in an area that encompasses about 14 square miles.No hunting had been allowed since the 1960's,although a number were still killed by tresspassers every year.Something had to be done because the deer literally ate everything that was growing.It was an ecological disaster.We did poluation surveys with FORESTERS AND BIOLOGISTS FROM PSU,DCNR and the US forest service.Initially we came in with an overwinter deer density of about 69 dpsm.That deer populations ate every bit of preferred regeneration.We set up 6 miles of browse imact plots and did surveys every year of what was growing and what was being eaten.In five years,we have yet to find one preferred sapling that hasn't been severly browsed.That's also despite the fact that logging is taking place on several thousand acres.Of the regeneration that's been present,75% of it has been comprised of beech.Beech is a non-prefered indicator species.That means deer won't touch it until they have no other choice.Guess what?59% of the beech is severaly to moderately browsed.Yes,the deer are in poor shape,especially during periods of heavy snow.We experienced a fair amount of winter kill during the winters of 2003 and 2004 and even some this past year.I have pictures top prove it.

Wanting.expecting and demanding too many deer is one of the greatest mistakes if this past century.I can't imagine why people need such high deer densities.I live in the wmu that has the absolute lowest deer densities in the entire state.Yet,I have no problems finding and killing multiple deer on public land each year.

Your posts of excessive deer sighting don't make me envy you.I actually feel bad for you,the deer,your neighbors and most importantly,the habitat there.

"We had way to many deer for way too long in Pa."

Gross generalization. We had way too many in a few areas.

"As a result,we have some of the most hoprrible habitat around"

Limited to some areas.

"and it will take years to fix."

Especially when considering by "FIX" audubon and pgc mean to conditions that never existed previously and are completely unnatural with ridiculous levels of biodiversity. (see aududon Pa website for details).

"There is absolutely no reason that a person has to see 70 plus deer in a couple days time period.It's flat out stupid and any professional wildlife manager woud agree."

I agree its unnecessary. But just as unnecessary to have the current unwarranted statewide wholesale slaughter

"Wanting.expecting and demanding too many deer is one of the greatest mistakes if this past century."

And econuts expecting and demanding too few is firmly all by itself at #1.

"I can't imagine why people need such high deer densities."

They apparently dont. Otherwise MOST would have quit by now. But its undeniable that rock bottom densities have dealt a heavy blow to satisfaction level of the states hunters. Many of us cant imagine why we need rock bottom numbers and ridiculous biodiversity when its simply a "values" issue and one that not very many people currently "value" at all. There is a happy medium here. But thanks to pgcs new age obtuse thinking and ecoflake make-up under the iron grip of dcnr and the governor, "happy medium" isnt an option currently.

But to compare 300 dpsm in some pocket of WV or whatever else the case may be....To our "needing" to have rock bottom numbers is more than a little off base Doug.

LOL:happy0001::happy0157:

Who has rockbottom numbers?I killed multiple deer on public land this year in the wmu that has the lowest dd in the entire state.In fact,I hunted three days during rifle season,all on state forest land and I could have killed a legal buck each day.You're complaining about rock bottom numbers in a WMU that harvested something like 14 dpsm.lol

Doug pa has rock bottom deer numbers. You can keep up the attempts at humor or pull your head out of your backside and see the facts for what they are. Compared to normal states nationwide, our densities are pizz poor. And that includes the best areas of this state where the densities are below 25 owdpsm and declining.

Since the PGC has taken tons of criticism for "not knowing" what our deer densities are, how did you come to those numbers? Maybe you should share your wisdom with our deer biologists.
I'm sure they'd welcome your expertise.

Btb, you are speaking of a position that is not my own. I never once critisized pgc for "not knowing how many deer we have". They do estimate the densities as best they can Id imagine. They also posted those densities on annual report. They also thereafter posted herd density change chart since then, on the last annual report.

The overwinter densities current range from "10 or less dpsm" to less than 25 dpsm. Those numbers are extremely lackluster overall, and if they are slightly "bloated" as some suggest, then its even worse.

I dont know about my "expertise" but I most certainly can read annual reports and i can do very basic 4th grade math.

well ok,,,i'll share a few #'s that i observed with all you deer biologists,,, from the area of 4d this past weekend,,,hell,,,i'll even give ya a town name of Loganton,,,spotlighted my way in on friday night,,,from mifflinburg to loganton on rt 192,,,saw 1 deer,,,,,saturday night seen the biggest doe i've ever seen ,,,that was that,,,in two hours of lookin,,,sunday night i didnt even turn the light on,,,too depressed,,,monday mornin,,,left to come back to va at prime time hopin to catch em headin back to the woods,,,nothin,,,not a f'n deer,,,but hey,,,,keep your heads and hopes hi,,,these deer pros on here will all tell ya that im lookin in the wrong areas,,,deer moved back into the forest to eat at night and said to hell with all the fresh veggies in the amish gardens,,,and the clover fields lack protien this time of year. Todays thursday and im still beside myself,,,i cant personally believe what Pa. as a hunting Mecca has become!

The way I see it Rem, PGC isnt saying we have alot of deer. They are saying we have few. I dont see much to disagree with that when they say units 2G, 5A, and 5D had 10 or less dpsm on the 2006 annual report, nor do I doubt it when they give the data that shows the very best wmus in the state have on average less than 25 owdpsm. Those are some of the lowest deer densities you'll find as "top" deer density goals in the nation. And those lower wmus with lower densities pretty much speak for themselves. lol

My problem isnt with pgcs density guestimate. The problem is with what deer densities they deem as necessary... and their goals, which consist currently of extreme unnatural levels of biodiversity. What they call "stabilization" is also a farce. When in actuallity it is "slower but continued reduction".