At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
04-13-2009, 08:10 AM
#141
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
BTW, South Carolinas hunting license is 18.00 That price Includes turkey deer and all the feral hogs you can shoot.
Also have a combo hunting and fishing license at a paltry $25.
Georgia cost $19 (10 +9biggame) you can hunt alot more than pa with it. Also have a very cheap hunting+fishing combo license. $17 + $9 biggame.
Pa isnt even close to being a "deal" compared to other states, and its gonna be far less of one if we get a fee increase. The fee will ten be among the higher states, and us with half the hunting quality and a ridiculous management strategy which they should be paying US restitution for, not collecting more money!
Also have a combo hunting and fishing license at a paltry $25.
Georgia cost $19 (10 +9biggame) you can hunt alot more than pa with it. Also have a very cheap hunting+fishing combo license. $17 + $9 biggame.
Pa isnt even close to being a "deal" compared to other states, and its gonna be far less of one if we get a fee increase. The fee will ten be among the higher states, and us with half the hunting quality and a ridiculous management strategy which they should be paying US restitution for, not collecting more money!
Type of License
Price
State Hunting License (small game only)
$12.00
County Hunting License (small game only)
(Valid in county of residence only)
5.00
Wildlife Management Area Permit
30.50
Big Game Permit
6.00
Migratory Waterfowl Permit (formerly State Duck Stamp)
5.50
Migratory Bird Permit
Free
Turkey Tags **
Free
* Includes Big Game Permit and Wildlife Management Area (WMA) Permit ** A valid SC hunting license and other applicable licenses, permits, tags or stamps are required in addition to these items.
WMA Public Drawing Hunts
The SCDNR offers a variety of WMA hunts through computerized drawings. Hunt fees range from $10 to $100 per hunter and must be submitted at the time of application. Applications for deer hunts are available in July, waterfowl and quail hunts in September, and youth/adult only turkey hunts in February. Deadlines to apply for draw hunts are generally mid-August (deer), mid-October for quail and waterfowl and early March for youth turkey hunts. Applications are available at SCDNR offices statewide or write SCDNR Public Drawing Hunts, PO Box 167, Columbia, SC 29202.
Here is theinformation on hunting license in Georgia:
License……………………………….....Ty pe Residents
Big Game (deer, turkey, bear)……………. $9.00
Hunting (regular)…………………………. $10.00
Wildlife Management Area (WMA)……… $19.00
The way it appears to me, in either of those states, you also have to get a WMA permit to hunt anything other the private property. Therefore, to hunt any of the state or federal lands or other wildlife managed areas you also have to purchase a WMA permit.
I am correct on what I am seeing it would cost $48.50 for a South Carolina resident to hunt deer on any public lands and $38.00 to hunt deer on public or managed lands in Georgia.
Both of those states also manage their wildlife resources from the state’s general tax funds where all of their residents are paying for wildlife management and still charge hunters as much and more to hunt as what it costs in Pennsylvania.
Keep looking for something that comes even close to comparing to the ridiculously low costs to hunt in Pennsylvania, as long as you are researching the subject you should also be learning just how good you really have it in this state.
04-13-2009, 08:22 AM
#143
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
Au contrare Mo-frare. The wma permits only cost ya if you hunt there.
We are comparing base license to base license remember? And that has NOTHING to do with WHERE you hunt!!
As we've shown already if you are concerned with "the best buys" for the value etc hunting license combos for many states are a tiny fraction the cost of Pas same deal.
$33 for Wv and over a hundred for Pa. Similar deals for other states mentioned.
Then we also have states like Ohio where if you own land, you dont even have to buy a license to hunt it!!
Pa is "medium range" price wise AND rock bottomed out"value" wise. With a fee increase and current circumstances we will be grossly overpaying.
We are comparing base license to base license remember? And that has NOTHING to do with WHERE you hunt!!
As we've shown already if you are concerned with "the best buys" for the value etc hunting license combos for many states are a tiny fraction the cost of Pas same deal.
$33 for Wv and over a hundred for Pa. Similar deals for other states mentioned.
Then we also have states like Ohio where if you own land, you dont even have to buy a license to hunt it!!
Pa is "medium range" price wise AND rock bottomed out"value" wise. With a fee increase and current circumstances we will be grossly overpaying.
04-13-2009, 08:23 AM
#144
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
ORIGINAL: J Pike
RSB If we are going to debate lets be honest!
The reason that OH. hunters have a higher success rate than PA. hunters despite the fact that PA. hunters are able to use high powered rifles in a gun season that is 5 days longer is because OH. has more DPSM on avg. than PA. does, it is as simple as that!! Pike
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
I certainly didn’t spin any numbers. All I did was point out the facts that some people either don’t understand or don’t what people to know.
If Pennsylvania had half as many hunters as what they do have , like Ohio has, the deer numbers would still be the same. That means it would just be easier for the fewer hunters to harvest the same number of deer as what were once harvested by twice as many hunters, since there would be more deer available per hunter. Therefore the hunter success rate, in Pennsylvania, would likely be just as high or even higher then it is in Ohio.
The point you were trying to make is not valid.
That is just basic math mixed with some good old common sense, you know.
R.S. Bodenhorn
ORIGINAL: J Pike
RSB your the one that always tries to spin the #'s!!
But in this case you just proved my point!
Ohio has just over half as many hunters per square mile yet they harvest
just 1.34 less deer per square mile despite PA.'s general Firearms season is 14 days in length and HIGH POWERED RIFLES are legal and OH.'s Genral gun season is only 9 days in length and only shotguns and ML.'s are permitted to use. PA. also has the early season state wide firearm seasons and OH. has none.
If you truely wanted to be fair you would have included this info!! Pike
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
So you want to compare Pennsylvania to Ohio? That is fine, but let's do it fairly instead of the biased way you like to compare them.
Number of hunters per square mile:
Ohio……………….10.99
Penna………………20.62
Deer harvests per square mile:
Ohio………………6.15
Penna……………..7.49
ORIGINAL: J Pike
RSB. on very negative note 924,000 PA. deer hunters only harvested 335,850 deer during the 2008-09 season.
Meanwhile over in OH. 450,000 deer hunters harvested 252,017 deer during the 2008-09 season.
But I have a really good idea for the PGC., since the PGC. supporters on this site claim that the large majority of the hunters in PA. support the PGC. and the lic. fee increase why doesnt the PGC. just ask the hunters who do not bow hunt to purchase a bow stamp this year? The hunters who do not bear hunt to purchase a bear permit? And the hunters who do not turkey hunt to purchase a turkey tag and so on? No need for the legislature to get involved and no need for a Lic. fee increase. Pike
RSB. on very negative note 924,000 PA. deer hunters only harvested 335,850 deer during the 2008-09 season.
Meanwhile over in OH. 450,000 deer hunters harvested 252,017 deer during the 2008-09 season.
But I have a really good idea for the PGC., since the PGC. supporters on this site claim that the large majority of the hunters in PA. support the PGC. and the lic. fee increase why doesnt the PGC. just ask the hunters who do not bow hunt to purchase a bow stamp this year? The hunters who do not bear hunt to purchase a bear permit? And the hunters who do not turkey hunt to purchase a turkey tag and so on? No need for the legislature to get involved and no need for a Lic. fee increase. Pike
So you want to compare Pennsylvania to Ohio? That is fine, but let's do it fairly instead of the biased way you like to compare them.
Number of hunters per square mile:
Ohio……………….10.99
Penna………………20.62
Deer harvests per square mile:
Ohio………………6.15
Penna……………..7.49
But in this case you just proved my point!
Ohio has just over half as many hunters per square mile yet they harvest
just 1.34 less deer per square mile despite PA.'s general Firearms season is 14 days in length and HIGH POWERED RIFLES are legal and OH.'s Genral gun season is only 9 days in length and only shotguns and ML.'s are permitted to use. PA. also has the early season state wide firearm seasons and OH. has none.
If you truely wanted to be fair you would have included this info!! Pike
I certainly didn’t spin any numbers. All I did was point out the facts that some people either don’t understand or don’t what people to know.
If Pennsylvania had half as many hunters as what they do have , like Ohio has, the deer numbers would still be the same. That means it would just be easier for the fewer hunters to harvest the same number of deer as what were once harvested by twice as many hunters, since there would be more deer available per hunter. Therefore the hunter success rate, in Pennsylvania, would likely be just as high or even higher then it is in Ohio.
The point you were trying to make is not valid.
That is just basic math mixed with some good old common sense, you know.
R.S. Bodenhorn
The reason that OH. hunters have a higher success rate than PA. hunters despite the fact that PA. hunters are able to use high powered rifles in a gun season that is 5 days longer is because OH. has more DPSM on avg. than PA. does, it is as simple as that!! Pike
Certainly Ohio has more deer per square mile then most areas of Pennsylvania. What was you point? I kind of thought everyone knew that and would also know why they have more deer pre square mile of habitat but maybe some don’t know so I will tell them why.
Ohio has some of the richest soil types in the nation with lots of farmland and crops combined with mixed forested habitat that grows high quality plant life that obviously provides good deer food.
Pennsylvania has many mountainous poor soil areas where hardly anything can grow, due to all the rocky outcroppings, let alone farm crops, trees or any other quality food for deer.
R.S. Bodenhorn
04-13-2009, 08:29 AM
#145
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
WOW pike... IM guessing a larger area of their state was hit compared to ours? Our hardest hit by far was 2A. part of 2B got some and any other areas were pretty insignificant numberswise in Pa.
Funny thing, Wv got hit too and in press releases they DIRECTLY BLAMED ehd deaths for decrease harvest in those areas. Pa danced around and said the harvest might have been down due to weather and less hunters hunting in the effected area....And gave little to no mention of the actual numbers dead to ehd and their effect on the reduced harvest. ALWAYS damage control. Of course WV and Ohio arent trying to slaughter their deer herd in an attempt tohave some ofthe lowest deer density goalsin the nation.
Funny thing, Wv got hit too and in press releases they DIRECTLY BLAMED ehd deaths for decrease harvest in those areas. Pa danced around and said the harvest might have been down due to weather and less hunters hunting in the effected area....And gave little to no mention of the actual numbers dead to ehd and their effect on the reduced harvest. ALWAYS damage control. Of course WV and Ohio arent trying to slaughter their deer herd in an attempt tohave some ofthe lowest deer density goalsin the nation.
04-13-2009, 08:34 AM
#146
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
"Certainly Ohio has more deer per square mile then most areas of Pennsylvania."
As does just about every other state. Includinglarge areas of Maine!! There is no logical explanation. That is utterly rediculous.
BTW, SW Pa soils are no worse than the non-agricultural area of the southeast Ohios soils. Yet that area is the highest deer density in Ohio, while the sw pa just a hop skip and jump away is being basically raped.
As does just about every other state. Includinglarge areas of Maine!! There is no logical explanation. That is utterly rediculous.
BTW, SW Pa soils are no worse than the non-agricultural area of the southeast Ohios soils. Yet that area is the highest deer density in Ohio, while the sw pa just a hop skip and jump away is being basically raped.
04-13-2009, 08:55 AM
#147
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
ORIGINAL: J Pike
RSB. you being a hunter your entire life know what I meant when I said the deer go ""underground" I meant they go almost completely nocturnal!
That is the reason some of us learned to hunt for deer where the deer live instead of just sitting and waiting for a deer to come out to where it was easy or convenient to kill one.
With no time on peek hunting days to hunt I learned a long time to hunt those places the nocturnal deer spent their days hiding from hunters. They really aren’t in holes after all even though they sure do find good place to avoid most hunters that never learned how to hunt pressured deer where those deer live.
I remember the bogus study in Sproul, If you could be so kind to remind me how many deer were in the study, how many of those deer were harvested by hunters and how many of the the radio collars used turned out to not work properly I will show everyone how you try to spin the #'s by using %'s. Cant wait for your answers. Pike
The final report isn’t due out until sometime later this year but this is a summary of what has been released to date.
Out of 109 female deer tagged, with some being radio tracked, hunters harvested a total of 12 of those does. That is hunters harvesting 11% of the does or one out of about each nine does in the population of the two study areas.
Here is the most recent report along with the abstract and methods.
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/reports/2006_wildlife/21010-05.pdf
Now perhaps you can tell everyone just what about the study you feel is bogus, other then it doesn't produce the results you wish it did.
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
Is that the reason the Pennsylvania hunters, through all of the deer seasons combined, can only harvest fewer then 20% of the tagged and marked antler less deer in the mortality studies? They can’t find them because the deer went under ground while the hunters were looking for them? What are they using when they make this underground exodus, ground hog holes?
R.S. Bodenhorn
ORIGINAL: J Pike
LMAO!!! You will try to spin anything wont you? As you and everyone else here knows deer are most vulnarable when they are on their feet and once they realize its gun season the deer go under ground and dont move during daylight unless PREASURE from hunters bump them and causes the deer to move!! And the more hunters you have per square mile hunting during gun season ( the season that the majority of PA.'s and OH.'s deer are harvested) the better the chance that any deer in the area are going to get pushed into moving during daylight and killed by hunters. I still cant believe you tried to say that. Pike
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
Therefore, I would suspect that if Pennsylvania only had half as many hunters the hunter success rate here would most likely exceed the success rate in Ohio.
ORIGINAL: J Pike
RSB. on very negative note 924,000 PA. deer hunters only harvested 335,850 deer during the 2008-09 season.
Meanwhile over in OH. 450,000 deer hunters harvested 252,017 deer during the 2008-09 season.
But I have a really good idea for the PGC., since the PGC. supporters on this site claim that the large majority of the hunters in PA. support the PGC. and the lic. fee increase why doesnt the PGC. just ask the hunters who do not bow hunt to purchase a bow stamp this year? The hunters who do not bear hunt to purchase a bear permit? And the hunters who do not turkey hunt to purchase a turkey tag and so on? No need for the legislature to get involved and no need for a Lic. fee increase. Pike
RSB. on very negative note 924,000 PA. deer hunters only harvested 335,850 deer during the 2008-09 season.
Meanwhile over in OH. 450,000 deer hunters harvested 252,017 deer during the 2008-09 season.
But I have a really good idea for the PGC., since the PGC. supporters on this site claim that the large majority of the hunters in PA. support the PGC. and the lic. fee increase why doesnt the PGC. just ask the hunters who do not bow hunt to purchase a bow stamp this year? The hunters who do not bear hunt to purchase a bear permit? And the hunters who do not turkey hunt to purchase a turkey tag and so on? No need for the legislature to get involved and no need for a Lic. fee increase. Pike
Is that the reason the Pennsylvania hunters, through all of the deer seasons combined, can only harvest fewer then 20% of the tagged and marked antler less deer in the mortality studies? They can’t find them because the deer went under ground while the hunters were looking for them? What are they using when they make this underground exodus, ground hog holes?
R.S. Bodenhorn
That is the reason some of us learned to hunt for deer where the deer live instead of just sitting and waiting for a deer to come out to where it was easy or convenient to kill one.
With no time on peek hunting days to hunt I learned a long time to hunt those places the nocturnal deer spent their days hiding from hunters. They really aren’t in holes after all even though they sure do find good place to avoid most hunters that never learned how to hunt pressured deer where those deer live.
I remember the bogus study in Sproul, If you could be so kind to remind me how many deer were in the study, how many of those deer were harvested by hunters and how many of the the radio collars used turned out to not work properly I will show everyone how you try to spin the #'s by using %'s. Cant wait for your answers. Pike
The final report isn’t due out until sometime later this year but this is a summary of what has been released to date.
Out of 109 female deer tagged, with some being radio tracked, hunters harvested a total of 12 of those does. That is hunters harvesting 11% of the does or one out of about each nine does in the population of the two study areas.
Here is the most recent report along with the abstract and methods.
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/reports/2006_wildlife/21010-05.pdf
Now perhaps you can tell everyone just what about the study you feel is bogus, other then it doesn't produce the results you wish it did.
04-13-2009, 09:01 AM
#148
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
Au contrare Mo-frare. The wma permits only cost ya if you hunt there.
We are comparing base license to base license remember? And that has NOTHING to do with WHERE you hunt!!
As we've shown already if you are concerned with "the best buys" for the value etc hunting license combos for many states are a tiny fraction the cost of Pas same deal.
$33 for Wv and over a hundred for Pa. Similar deals for other states mentioned.
Then we also have states like Ohio where if you own land, you dont even have to buy a license to hunt it!!
Pa is "medium range" price wise AND rock bottomed out"value" wise. With a fee increase and current circumstances we will be grossly overpaying.
Au contrare Mo-frare. The wma permits only cost ya if you hunt there.
We are comparing base license to base license remember? And that has NOTHING to do with WHERE you hunt!!
As we've shown already if you are concerned with "the best buys" for the value etc hunting license combos for many states are a tiny fraction the cost of Pas same deal.
$33 for Wv and over a hundred for Pa. Similar deals for other states mentioned.
Then we also have states like Ohio where if you own land, you dont even have to buy a license to hunt it!!
Pa is "medium range" price wise AND rock bottomed out"value" wise. With a fee increase and current circumstances we will be grossly overpaying.
04-13-2009, 09:05 AM
#149
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
"That is the reason some of us learned to hunt for deer where the deer live instead of just sitting and waiting for a deer to come out to where it was easy or convenient to kill one. "
If more hunters "learned to hunt" as you seem to insinuate is necessary, all that would achieve is to reduce the herd even further and the harvests thereafter would fall even farther down the toilet. The harvests that are already exceeding recruitment are not sustainable. And there is not room for more without reducing the herd even further. The answer is not to add harvest to this herd now. It is to reduce harvest, allow herd growth so a larger SUSTAINABLE harvest can be had very soon thereafter.
BTW, I didnt catch any comment from you on WV combo license. The rediculous chart protrayed the WV hunting license as 10 dollars more than the combo license they offer that includes archery muzzleloader trapping FISHING and 3 deer tags for 33 bucks. Compare the same in Pa at OVER A HUNDRED.
If more hunters "learned to hunt" as you seem to insinuate is necessary, all that would achieve is to reduce the herd even further and the harvests thereafter would fall even farther down the toilet. The harvests that are already exceeding recruitment are not sustainable. And there is not room for more without reducing the herd even further. The answer is not to add harvest to this herd now. It is to reduce harvest, allow herd growth so a larger SUSTAINABLE harvest can be had very soon thereafter.
BTW, I didnt catch any comment from you on WV combo license. The rediculous chart protrayed the WV hunting license as 10 dollars more than the combo license they offer that includes archery muzzleloader trapping FISHING and 3 deer tags for 33 bucks. Compare the same in Pa at OVER A HUNDRED.
04-13-2009, 09:12 AM
#150
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: At this period of time, do you favor a hunting license increase?
"I'd gladly pay twice the current price, I know I'd get my money's worth with the time I put in each year, if the hunting quality was better and those in power doing a better job and giving a damn about hunters. "
I too would glady pay much more if extemists were not dictating what we as hunters are going to accept. Deer numbers and management philosophies that are so far out there, its unreal.
Pa doesnt want ten times the trillium and unnatural levels ofextreme biodiversity. Pa doesnt want the deer numbers of Maine. Pa doesnt want eco-nuts dictating game management.
I too would glady pay much more if extemists were not dictating what we as hunters are going to accept. Deer numbers and management philosophies that are so far out there, its unreal.
Pa doesnt want ten times the trillium and unnatural levels ofextreme biodiversity. Pa doesnt want the deer numbers of Maine. Pa doesnt want eco-nuts dictating game management.