WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

i was readingarticleon comments made by former DEER CZAR when he had his public meeting around state to push the new deer hr/ar program...

here was comment madeto PGC commissioners.

we will have to wait until two or three generations of pa deer hunters die,in order for our deer program to be accepted.


what was being said is that us that remember the GOOD OLE DAYS of deer hunting would have to die off before the program would be accepted.:)


i hope our great hunting tradition is notforgotten with death of us older farts,50 and older now you are qualified as older fart:)

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I'm in that category too! Be 53 next week.[:@] We might be headed on the down side. But I hope the younger generations desire to hunt grows and continues after we are gone.:)[/align]

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Let me be the first to wish you a happy birthday,as a matter a fact have a great week.:)
Mines not for a while but I feel my best deer hunting days are in front of me, I work hard at making my land the best it can be and plan on shooting a bigger buck next year.;)

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Well thank you very much Jim!:) Ah, I still got some goods years left! ;)Hope you get that buck of a lifetime!;)

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Hmmm...,

Someone's copy of Woods & Waters must have come today. Mine did too. I read the same article.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

What the PGC doesn't seem to understand is that they created a new generation of hunters that want to protect the doe.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I was raised to never shoot a doe by the old folks. This mentality originated in the very old days when there were no deer to speak of. I'm smart enough to know that it is necessary now. There is no shortage of hunters that enjoy doing just that. You are espousing doomsday scenarios again BB.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

not doomsday again is it

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Seems everyone want to blame the older guys for everything, those of us in our 50's, 60's and 70's. But remember we did our part by having sons and turning them into hunters, now recruitment is out of our hands. It's the 30 and 40 year olds dropping the ball, quit playing on your computers and go do what comes naturally. If any of you need help, let us know when you'll be going out of state to hunt. ;)

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Wasn't the actual quote from Alt, "We may have to wait for an entire generation to die.."?

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I dont think it is any one generations fault . I feel it is more of the tech age with all the new devices readly
avalibl to keep them busy rather than a walk in the woods plinking a bb gun . When i was a kid there wasnt
a thing to do inside . Tv wasnt all that great of course only getting 1 or 2 channels by spinning antena.
Daytime tv notta thing on night time local news world news 60 minutes yea as a kid those were fun to watch:eek:
wheel of fortune/jeporty/ family feud wasnt great but better than nothing

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I started hunting in 1955 and the group that i hunted with had n reservations about killing doe. In 2001 our group of six hunters harvested 6 antlerless deer. Since 2001 we have only harvested one antlerless deer because we saw how much our herd was reduced by the high antlerless harvests in 2001 and 2002.



If you want to see how many hunters are passing on doe ,just look at the archery harvest stats. Or, you can look at the ratio of antlerless tags to the number of doe harvested. In 2000 780K tags produced a harvest of 302K antlerless ,but in 2007 869K tags only produced a harvest of 213K doe
so ,if hunting is better than ever ,isn't it obvious that a lot of hunters are passing on doe?.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

when dad took us hunting,he would only let us kill a few doe in each area.
this was publicland.

other hunters would not hunt in your area, they went elsewhere.

also dad would say,DONT SHOOT LITTLE BUCKS.

FUNNY, THATS WHAT AR IS DOING NOW.

we had deer.


NOW, you have 3 deer left in area,doors open on trucks, out comes hunters as far as harrisburg to kill the few doe that are left.

9 different crews drove same area after those 3 doe.

they got 1.

i said to one crew,HEY GUYS, HOW ABOUT LAYING OFF DOE THERE ARE SO FEW.

the one that was going to college in harrisburg said to me, SPROUL WE SAW HERDS of deer here in oct muzzleloader season,we shot 1 then too.

i think he was LEADER of crew too.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Not blaming them. They had every reason to think their way.
Times change but people seldom do.
We have many challenges in this new time.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I am sure there is some truth to what you are saying bluebird, about fellows choosing to pass on the doe. I for one am one of them but, I think it is more likely they are not seeing any doe shoot.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

A lot of the problem with things is the longer season on antlerless. Hunters have far more opportunity to fill those tags now. I've never cared for concurrent seasons personally. People also seem to take no peronal responsibility for their actions. Many areas need hunting pressure and some need a break. The GC has a limit to how small they can break down the WMUs. This is where the common sense should kick in on the hunter's part. Instead of sitting in the same spots that aren't producing, why not go where the deer are actually at? This is why the longer concurrent season's are messing with you guys. A hunter will wait out a spot in a low density area and shoot the last doe there. instead of hitting a more productive area that can use the harvest. Scouting and productive efforts are lost when hunters are no longer under the gun to fill that tag within a three day window.
It all works out to an inconsistent use of the harvest as a means of controlling the herd across the landscape. Some hunters are unsatisfied and the GC does not get the harvest
that is warranted in the denser pockets of concentration.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

In the populated areas there are very few SGL's andmost if not all other lands are posted. If I didn't own a few acres myself, I too would be on SGL's.

Up in thebig woods, there are those who claim that there are a lot of deer, I had posted on that PGC site that they should tell others hunters where all these deer are at. Then they said that hunters have to scout on thereown to find these spots. Seems to me, if they really believed that the herd should be reduced, they would tell hunters where these deer are at. To me they are either liars about all the deer they see or they are greedy and want them all for themselves.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

"I am becoming more and more convinced that wildlife management would be better off if we worked from the general fund and told hunters to take a flying leap with their money." R.S. Bodenhorn - PA Game Commission WCO of Elk County


Sounds like something that would come out of his mouth.Retirement can't came soon enough for employees like him.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I am just wondering what you mean by moving to a different area? What is your definition of a different area? Are you talking about climbing up over the top to hunt the other side of the mountain? Are you talking about going across the road to hunt ther other mountain? Are you talking about moving 3 miles down the road to hunt a different location? Are you talking about moving toa different location in the county? Are you talking about moving to a different county? How far do you think you have to move to find these, "Pockets"?

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I agree. I wonder how much longer he has to go until he does retire? Care to respond, D i c k?

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Half or more of the BOC and the PGC staff will have died by then as well. Dumb comment.
Just remember that ...everyone here is becoming a little more irrelevant every day.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

"Dumb comment"

Not really, if taken in the context in which Alt said it. He was responding to a question concerningthe inability of some to adapt to HR and concurrent seasons, IIRC?

Within the context which it belongs in, itprobably will taketime before somehunters get over losing the ability tokill spikes andget over being able to see lots of deer on opening day, like they once did. Some never will get over it, hence his comment about it never occuring until that generation that was used to something else, is gone.

Same with his comments about alpha hunters, that gotpeople all het up.

If we want to be honest, we all know some hunters that are muchbetter than we are, by virtue of their ability via acquired skills, time spent in preparation and theirconsistancy in finding deer and killing them on a regular basis.While some of usmight pretend we're the bestwe can be, most are just kidding themselves. I'll never be an alpha hunter, but still do the best I can each year and try to improve upon my meager abilities.

Some prefer to just ignore what he meant and would sooner run their jibbers about the "awful" things Alt said.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Denny as usual is full of beans. What Alt meant was a whole generation would have to die off before they could take the herd even far lower than it was at the time + get funding unconditionally without hunters throwing a monkey wrench into their master plan or petitioning legislators or complaining loudly etc. He didnt simply mean so "hunters could get used to the system and have better hunting!" Lmao!! He couldnt have given a rats arse less about hunters. He also said we needed ALTERNATE FUNDING to really get the job done without interference. Some how Im guessing that had nothing to do with his concern over hunter satisfaction ! (LOL)(LOL)

Denny where the hell do you come up with your nonsense? Ive heard others call you a pgc brownnoser on many occassions, but my god man, that thing outta be BLACK by now! LOL. SHEEESH!!;)

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Bowtruck said: ""not doomsday again is it ""

No, but in April we have fast approaching "allocation announcement day". The day when pgc pulls their head out of the butt, sees their shadow and tells us there will be another year of slaughter.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

There is no question about what Alt meant. He meant to insult,belittle and denigrate the hunting ability of the average PA hunter, even though we are so efficient that we killed 80% of our preseason buck each year , prior to ARs.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

I do wish they would cut way back on doe tags But from the looks around my house depending on fawns in the spring i see about 5 doe meeting the grim reaper

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

May have to amend my "no does with scoped rifles" qualifier of the past 6 or 7 years and just shoot one when it's handy next fall? Either that or quit carrying a scoped rifle the first few days and tote one of my antique lever rifles instead, when there are typicially does close at hand.

Couldn't have taken a doe during the first trip to camp in archery season last year. Left my doe tags at home.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Since Denny blindly supports the PGC HR plan, I wonder why he hasn't been doing his part to reduce the herd in the area where he hunts. Is there a word that applies to guys like that?

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Hypocrite?....

Then again maybe he's just a poor hunter and not hunting long enough or going back in far enough?:D

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Or maybe he hasn't moved to another area to, "where the deer are". Isn't that right livbucks? I am still waiting for you to clarify what you were trying to say.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

No ball dropped here,,,born 1-1967 and my son at age 16 is alreay a die hard,,,he took his girlfriend to NRA today to do some indoor shooting and im just hopin that once they left there he did'nt do what comes naturally:eek:

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

40 Hour week is long past my friends, we will never go back to that. 20 years and more ago to punch a clock at 40 and get paid was fine. Today's work climate requires 60 + hours to kep up. In our furor for more info, we created a demand for more work to time to get it. I have few short hours so they are spent coaching VBall, being at BBall practices, Advisor in 4H, etc. I am fortunate in that I have a camp in PA but it ain't easy getting there w/ just regular life things happening. Look at the size of your yards at home....newer homes have postage stamp yards and there is a good chance that a gardener takes care of it because I'm working or some other "time" constraint. Fast food at all time highs , they have not experienced a big down turn in this economy. When I do get down time I am asleep......So let me ask you where i should take my daughter from, sports that she loves, 4H that she loves (mother and i are involved) or away from her mother (who is iffy at best about camp and hunting) to the mountains? I happen to do the latter, as my wife also works and uses the time we are gone to play catch up on house work.What I'm saying here guys is it isn't the want to get in the woods more, it's the time and need. As we are going to find out real quick in our Obama world and looking at our economy, we are going to havwe to start evaluating whether it is a want or a need in our lives before we do anything. Because at 53, I'm getting damn tired of working more and more , being on the road and seeing posts like these blaming me for not carrying on the tradition. How many schools still get 1st day of buck of, very few....Times change, clocks don't go back and hunting is evolving right wrong or indifferent. We indeed might be the last generation of 'HARD' & 'Dedicated' hunters. Dad's just can't get up and go to camp (most both spouses work, no excuse like it's my vacation) , take a week, or the 1st day of buck and are lucky to get 5-6 days off in a season to hunt. So go ahead and beat on me, it won't change the world boys and the way life is now vs. what it used to be............

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

i dont SEE many passing on doebut some say they are.

usually ones that cant look you in eye and say that are ones that are shooting a doe but saying they are not.

i saw 4 of those types with 4 doe with DMAP tags on doe but were not shot in the DMAP areas.

latest now is shoot a doe on privateland and tag it with a DMAP TAG.

i wish i hadproof enough to have them arrested, i know they do it but i cant prove it.

but next year, I AM GOING TO SEE IF WCO IS INTERESTED IN NAILING THEM,YES, THEY ARE MY LOCAL FRIENDS TOO.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

40 hour weeks are for people that punch a clock and I wasn't one of them. We all choose our own profession and I knew very well what I was getting into, when I graduated in 1960.

I usually didn't see my children during the week because they were asleep when I arrived home, we didn't have microwaves in those days, so my evening meal was heated in the oven. My wife only worked one year after we were married, she put all her paychecks in the bank for a downpayment on a house. We purchased a house thatwe could afford on only my salary, only had one car and lived on meat and potatoes, not junk take home fast food.

I didn't have the money or the time to hunt from a cabin. To be able to take the first day of buck off, usually required that I work the Saturday before, just to be allowed to take Monday as vacation.First Saturday I would work Friday night for four or five hours, to be able to go out for a day of hunting. Second Saturday, I usually worked to be able to schedule a vacation day for the First day of doe, if buck season started early enough in November, I could get the second day of doe off.

As you can see, I was one of those one or two hunters, that our PGC supporters are always running down. I didn't have a lot of time to scout, hunt or spend time with my family, but I made time wherever I could.

I never was a alpha hunter, nor did I ever intend to be, always enjoyed my time out hunting no matter the outcome.

I would want to change things, even if I could go back. I feel I had a fruitful life, have three boys that tried hunting and a daughter that never would fire a gun. The only thing that saddens me is that my wife missed out on a lot, last two marriages of our children, two of our three grandchildren and one on the way. My family always meant more to me than going hunting, I wouldn't hesitate to give up a day or season of hunting for my family.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

Sproul, all of the illegal acts that I know of, were done by local hunters.
they would fill their freezers with deer, when we were only allowed one. What broke up our group of drivers was, hunters that already shot their deer, arguing they should be allowed to post to shoot another. There always were greedy hunters, but now with all the doe tags, they can legally fill their freezers.

When you hear about guys shooting three, four and five deer, doesn't it make you wonder, what they did when only allowed one deer?

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

RESPECTFULLY, HERE IN CLINTON/POTTER COUNTY THERE ARE NOT MORE PRODUCTIVE AREAS.;)

THEY WERE GONE OVER 10 YEARS AGO AND LONGER.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

very true.

when you could not carry a fireman in woods after you shot a deer, doe got away for next year.

now, heck you can carry a THOMPSON PISTOL and even illegally spotlight with it and nothing can be done.

everything today is to allow more killing of doe.

i could see it if you have like 20 dpsm in area that is allowed 12.

but what about area like CLINTON/POTTER that is allowed 12 dpsm and now its down to 4 or 6 or less.

doe killing continues.

i did see some promising things,MOST of locals or lets say half did not kill doe this year,other half did.

thats reduction of about 25% from 75% to 50%.

but in came more crews from out of area than i ever saw on saturday/monday/tuesday of 2nd week.

9 crews from out of area drove where i hunted and killed 1 doe.9 crews with average of 8 hunters in crew.

sad thing is they have great hunting where they came from.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

But my point is that the longer concurrent season allows guys to wait out those thin areas and pop that very last doe. You are reading me wrong Sproul.
If they only had three days, they might look elsewhere.
BTW, I hunted clinton years ago and never went back...know why? Too hard a walking up those mountains to see yote tracks, buzzards and no deer all day. And that was near the herd's peak years.

RE: WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY DIE
 

i am all for 3 day doe only in clinton/potter county.

i am also in favor in those counties, 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE.

also it should be 3 points for all of us.

stop early in-line rifle season in archery,let archery hunters alone

if all that happen, you would not here me complain anymore.

this would also be more fair to hunters that are not in woods everyday like me,at least some deer would be left for them come gun season and the 3 day of doe.

i know, some will say,BUT ARCHERY HUNTERS WILL KILL OFF THE DOE.

i see very few doe killed with bow in archery, most archery hunters are after a buck.

anyway you look at it, i will not get my wish list, just a lot of hot air going no where.