Urban, suburban and park environments are vastly different from our North Central big woods.

Parks, suburban and urban areas have exponentially higher amounts of edge producingvastlyhigher amounts of forage.

Comparing the carrying capacity of a square mile of most 2G forest to a square mile of edge is kind of like comparing the fact that you can keep 200 humans alive with a 50 lb bag of rice daily vshow many you could feed every day at the all you can eat buffet

That is the same propaganda RSB has been spreading about 2G since 2G was created. If he wants to use the thread to spread his propaganda I have every right to refute it anyway I see fit!!!

The PGC doesn't consider the edge effects or increased forage of non-forested habitat when determining population goals. The only consider the health of the forest and the herd.

Hello McFly! Anybody in there? The VF park is FED turf and the PGC has nothing to do with it.

Leave it to Blueboy to point out the differences between apples and oranges!

No one said that the PGC controlled the herd at VF or that they established DD goals for the park. But that doesn't negate the fact that the herd was still below the MSY carrying capacity at over 200 DPSM, in an area with heavily over browsed habitat.

AND....that we hunters got HOSED by the PGC into accepting ridiculously low DD beacuse that is what they wanted us to believe the habitat was able to support. After the impending slaughter at VF, they plan on using contraceptives to maintain the herd at lower levels (that are ironically still over twice the highest DD goals set by the PGC for anyWMU in the state)....Why? Wouldn't that depleted habitat dothat for them, RSB? Seems they expect that as soon as the gun barrels cool down that the herd will come back with a vengeance. Even where DD near 300 dpsm have supposedly browsed everything in sight, the herd would return to a very high DD in short time with no hunting pressure. BTB< you spoke of al the edge habitat. What about the large amount of quality farmland composing 5A and 5B, yet the PGC set goals at 5 dpsm....this is not big woods, either. The blanket of HR covers the entire state, and very unfairly I might add.[:@]

I do not have any experience with either of those WMU's so I really cant answer for those specific WMU's myself. This may or not be applicable, but similar goals have been stated for 2B and they are appropriate here because the square mileage includes buildings, streets, parking lots etc etc. That may or may not be a fair comparison but based on the fact that I believe its realistic here, I would lean toward it being realistic there.

Again, when left to depending onfacts provided by others, I lean toward believing the professionals over the armchair biologist.

With all those parking lots,streets and buildings , the goal for 2B was 10 DPSM which is twice the goal for 5B which had one third the development as in 2B. You would be singing a different tune if the PGC had reduced the herd to around 50% below the goal like they did in 2G.

BTB, 5B (where I live) is composed of the cities of York and Lancaster, and some smaller towns, but the surplus of the area is rural mixed farms and woodlots...some sizable sections constituting the river hills region in the southern half of both of these counties. These southern tier counties routinely produce deer that weigh significantly more than their same age classmates in mountainous regions of the state. The fields of York and Lancaster counties, in the lower Susquehanna valley have a well deserved reputation for being some of the most fertile farmland in the state. So why the 5dpsm goal ? Not ot mention that the vast majority of it is private land with a few mediocre game lands thrown in.

I believe in creating edges, clearcuts and food plots. For every Biologist we got rid of, we could buy a bulldozer each year.

it seems to me they cut the herd down well below carring capacity in many or most areas id like to
know why for sure is it the timber, auto ins , or do they believe that a wmu can only hold 5 deer a mile
that seems doubtfull
the fed in vally forge well there was show on the history channnel yellowstone showing how they
messed that up and killed most of thoose animals so id trust them as much as pgc