Valley Forge plans deer shoot
02-17-2009, 09:32 AM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Westmoreland County PA.
Posts: 735
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
[quote]ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
I have not seen a dollar figure but I can assure you it isn’t cheap.
It would be a lot more cost affective to get the population in balance and then use hunters to control the population in the future but there would be other conflicts the Fed’s don’t want to deal with by using hunters as the management tool.
Plus, it would take an act of Congress and we all know that we frequently don’t get good things from that route.
R.S. Bodenhorn
Minnesota
The city applied for the grant late last year amid its special urban deer hunt, which harvested 45 deer. Numerous complaints about the city’s growing deer herd and the 140 car-deer crashes recorded since 2002 led to the hunt that allowed bow hunting in segments of the city from Sept. 13 to Nov. 20 and Dec. 1 to Jan. 4.
Dave Erickson, an environmental engineer for the city, presented the news to the city’s Public Health and Safety Committee at its Monday meeting.
The grant will not cover the full cost of the sharpshooters if the city decides to hire them. It will cost the city $10,000 to hire sharpshooters to remove between 50 and 75 deer, leaving the city with a $5,000 responsibility.
[hr]
The Battle of Valley Forge[/align]National park turns to sharpshooters to thin deer herd. What about a public hunt? [/align][/align]
Sunday News[/align]Published: Feb 15, 2009
00:02 EST[/align]Valley Forge[/align][/align][/align]
Article[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Photos[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Map[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Related[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Share It[/align][/align][/align][/align][/ul]
tag_linking = !getCookie('no_tag_linking');
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By P.J. REILLY, Woods and Waters[/align]When George Washington's Continental Army settled in for the winter at Valley Forge in December 1777, food was in short supply.
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[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]
Deer graze in a field last week in Valley Forge National Historical Park. Officials have proposed a pl...(more)[/align]
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Deer have been blamed for preventing the park's forests from regenerating. This photo clearly shows a ...(more)[/align]
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Continental Army soldiers camped in a hut like this one at Valley Forge in the winter of 1777-78 would...(more)[/align]
[/align]3 of 3[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]
hideArray = new Array('photo_id_0','photo_id_1','photo_id_2');
Nearly 2,000 soldiers died during the encampment — some due to starvation.
Oh, how that army would have loved to camp at Valley Forge today, amid the resident population of deer that numbers 193 animals per square mile.
Absent those hungry soldiers, however, snipers are expected to be hired with taxpayer dollars within the year as part of a $2.8 million effort to thin the herds inhabiting the 3,466 acres of Valley Forge National Historical Park in Chester and Montgomery counties.
Though hunters likely would pay for the chance to take home some of the park's deer, your and my tax dollars instead will be spent to hire sharpshooters to do the job.[/align][/align]$2.8 million to harvest these deer.[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]
ORIGINAL: cardeeer
Does anyone know how much it will cost per deer to kill them ?? It seems to me I remember a figure like 325.00 a deer when they did it at Gettysburg. But really aint sure. Hey maybe the stimulus package will pay for it ???
Does anyone know how much it will cost per deer to kill them ?? It seems to me I remember a figure like 325.00 a deer when they did it at Gettysburg. But really aint sure. Hey maybe the stimulus package will pay for it ???
I have not seen a dollar figure but I can assure you it isn’t cheap.
It would be a lot more cost affective to get the population in balance and then use hunters to control the population in the future but there would be other conflicts the Fed’s don’t want to deal with by using hunters as the management tool.
Plus, it would take an act of Congress and we all know that we frequently don’t get good things from that route.
R.S. Bodenhorn
Minnesota
The city applied for the grant late last year amid its special urban deer hunt, which harvested 45 deer. Numerous complaints about the city’s growing deer herd and the 140 car-deer crashes recorded since 2002 led to the hunt that allowed bow hunting in segments of the city from Sept. 13 to Nov. 20 and Dec. 1 to Jan. 4.
Dave Erickson, an environmental engineer for the city, presented the news to the city’s Public Health and Safety Committee at its Monday meeting.
The grant will not cover the full cost of the sharpshooters if the city decides to hire them. It will cost the city $10,000 to hire sharpshooters to remove between 50 and 75 deer, leaving the city with a $5,000 responsibility.
[hr]
The Battle of Valley Forge[/align]National park turns to sharpshooters to thin deer herd. What about a public hunt? [/align][/align]
Sunday News[/align]Published: Feb 15, 2009
00:02 EST[/align]Valley Forge[/align][/align][/align]
Article[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Photos[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Map[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Related[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Share It[/align][/align][/align][/align][/ul]
tag_linking = !getCookie('no_tag_linking');
if(tag_linking) document.write("Don't ");
Don't Link Tags[/align][/align]
By P.J. REILLY, Woods and Waters[/align]When George Washington's Continental Army settled in for the winter at Valley Forge in December 1777, food was in short supply.
[align=center]
[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]Deer graze in a field last week in Valley Forge National Historical Park. Officials have proposed a pl...(more)[/align]
[/align]1 of 3[/align]
[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][align=center]
[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]Deer have been blamed for preventing the park's forests from regenerating. This photo clearly shows a ...(more)[/align]
[/align]2 of 3[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][align=center]
[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]Continental Army soldiers camped in a hut like this one at Valley Forge in the winter of 1777-78 would...(more)[/align]
[/align]3 of 3[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]hideArray = new Array('photo_id_0','photo_id_1','photo_id_2');
Nearly 2,000 soldiers died during the encampment — some due to starvation.
Oh, how that army would have loved to camp at Valley Forge today, amid the resident population of deer that numbers 193 animals per square mile.
Absent those hungry soldiers, however, snipers are expected to be hired with taxpayer dollars within the year as part of a $2.8 million effort to thin the herds inhabiting the 3,466 acres of Valley Forge National Historical Park in Chester and Montgomery counties.
Though hunters likely would pay for the chance to take home some of the park's deer, your and my tax dollars instead will be spent to hire sharpshooters to do the job.[/align][/align]$2.8 million to harvest these deer.[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]
02-17-2009, 11:15 AM
#22
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,747
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
I sent an email to the PGC. Here is there response (cut & pasted):
We have recommended that the federal government, which has jurisdiction for Valley Forge National Park, include hunting as a means of controlling deer populations. However, our recommendation has not be included in their plan.
We have recommended that the federal government, which has jurisdiction for Valley Forge National Park, include hunting as a means of controlling deer populations. However, our recommendation has not be included in their plan.
02-17-2009, 02:20 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
Everyone should note that both BlkPowder and RSB refuse to address the issue of the MSY carrying capacity of the habitat in VF. When the data doesn't support their agenda they crawl in their hole and pull the hole in after them.
02-17-2009, 02:38 PM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
Once again Bluebird hijacks another thread. This thread was about an overpopulation of deer in a FEDERAL park where the PGC has nothing to saybut the [&:]bird just can't let any discussiontake place without dragging out the same old BB BS
02-17-2009, 03:02 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Once again Bluebird hijacks another thread. This thread was about an overpopulation of deer in a FEDERAL park where the PGC has nothing to say but the [&:]bird just can't let any discussion take place without dragging out the same old BB BS
Once again Bluebird hijacks another thread. This thread was about an overpopulation of deer in a FEDERAL park where the PGC has nothing to say but the [&:]bird just can't let any discussion take place without dragging out the same old BB BS
R.S.B.
Fork Horn
Posts: 288
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline
First of all Doug is correct in the fact that the Game Commission has no say what happens on any Federal Ground unless they choose to allow hunting as the method of removal. Even the Allegheny National Forest could set up their own hunting seasons and bag limits if they chose to do so. Presently all Federal property, other then the parks, do allow the state wildlife seasons, bag limits and regulations be used as the method of wildlife management.
Pawildman is also correct that they take into consideration the normal fawn recruitment of the next four years in their estimate of the number of deer to removed.
As an example of how deer populations can both increase to match the food supply and then decline when they start adversely affecting that food supply I am going to post their estimated deer numbers for various years. Remember this is a deer herd that has never been hunted yet when deer numbers got too high some deer could leave and be harvested by legal or illegal hunters in areas open to hunting. Also a number of those deer each year have been killed by vehicles.
Now the historic Valley Forge deer population estimates: Valley Forge is 5.3 square miles in size.
Year………………..estimated deer population
1985.………………….165-185
1997.……………………772
2003.…………………..1398
2007.…………………..1023
Hopefully everyone can see a couple of things from these estimates. First we should be able to see how fast a deer population can increase when they have suitable habitat. Next everyone needs to recognize that these estimates indicate the deer herd is now in a state of decline, even without the influence of hunter harvests, due to over population. That really is a perfectly natural occurrence when populations reach the point of exceeding their habitat and food supply.
R.S. Bodenhorn
Fork Horn
Posts: 288
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline
First of all Doug is correct in the fact that the Game Commission has no say what happens on any Federal Ground unless they choose to allow hunting as the method of removal. Even the Allegheny National Forest could set up their own hunting seasons and bag limits if they chose to do so. Presently all Federal property, other then the parks, do allow the state wildlife seasons, bag limits and regulations be used as the method of wildlife management.
Pawildman is also correct that they take into consideration the normal fawn recruitment of the next four years in their estimate of the number of deer to removed.
As an example of how deer populations can both increase to match the food supply and then decline when they start adversely affecting that food supply I am going to post their estimated deer numbers for various years. Remember this is a deer herd that has never been hunted yet when deer numbers got too high some deer could leave and be harvested by legal or illegal hunters in areas open to hunting. Also a number of those deer each year have been killed by vehicles.
Now the historic Valley Forge deer population estimates: Valley Forge is 5.3 square miles in size.
Year………………..estimated deer population
1985.………………….165-185
1997.……………………772
2003.…………………..1398
2007.…………………..1023
Hopefully everyone can see a couple of things from these estimates. First we should be able to see how fast a deer population can increase when they have suitable habitat. Next everyone needs to recognize that these estimates indicate the deer herd is now in a state of decline, even without the influence of hunter harvests, due to over population. That really is a perfectly natural occurrence when populations reach the point of exceeding their habitat and food supply.
R.S. Bodenhorn
02-17-2009, 05:56 PM
#27
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
Wrong once again. RSB posted facts pertinent to VF park. A very specific site and situation. You tried to hijack it into your tired old diatribe about area 2G and the rest of PA. Apples vs oranges once again.
As for apologies, none are due you.You, however are way over your head in apology debt on this forum.
As for apologies, none are due you.You, however are way over your head in apology debt on this forum.
02-17-2009, 06:23 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,600
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
RSB did nothing but to provide information concerning the deer problem at VF. I thank him for that. BB takes every chance he can to inject his personal vendetta into every post that even mentions the word "deer".
As for being on his "hit list" I wouldn't worry about it. The list grows longer with each post he tries to hijack. It's the way he attracts attention to himself.
As for being on his "hit list" I wouldn't worry about it. The list grows longer with each post he tries to hijack. It's the way he attracts attention to himself.
02-17-2009, 11:49 PM
#30
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
Knock BB all you want, but there is a point here that should be addressed. Whomever expert VF is consulting with only reccomended a reduction of around 80% whick still leaves a target DD of approx 46 dpsm. This is in habitat completety ravaged by DD nearly 300 dpsm. Yet throughout much of our state (that never saw DD anywhere remotely close toevena thirdthat number) the PGC set goals at OWDD in the single digits. Figure that one out. Notto mention that the herd only recently at such high DD (almost 300 dpsm) started to reduce on its own due to surpassing the max cc. Yet RSB continues to claim that the habitat in 2G is controlling the herd at around 10 dpsm?????????? Gimme a break.
So...if they reduce the herd in VF to 46 dpsm and curb the shooting, and the herd rebounds again quickly to over 100 dpsm, can we assume that even the depleted habitat in VF can support over 50 dpsm as the herd would be growing almost exponentially? Food for thought. BB has said it many times. The habitat warriors can cry all they want, but our forests can sustain much higher DD than 8 or 10 dpsm. HR was not abouthealthy deer and CC of the habitat.
So...if they reduce the herd in VF to 46 dpsm and curb the shooting, and the herd rebounds again quickly to over 100 dpsm, can we assume that even the depleted habitat in VF can support over 50 dpsm as the herd would be growing almost exponentially? Food for thought. BB has said it many times. The habitat warriors can cry all they want, but our forests can sustain much higher DD than 8 or 10 dpsm. HR was not abouthealthy deer and CC of the habitat.