bawanajim

So you are not denying that your the woman in the slim fast commercials?

R.S.B.

First of all I would be willing to bet I have had my hands, on and examined, at least a hundreds of dead deer for every one you have ever touched. Besides those thousands upon thousands of dead deer I have handled I have studied reports from others who have documented the ages of the thousands up thousands of dead deer they have handled each hunting season for decades now.

Though it is a fact that you will occasionally see a less then one year old button buck with buttons over an inch long that is a very unusual occurrence. A high percentage of the button buck will have rubbed antlers that are visible above the hair line even though most hunters never see that before they walk up to the dead deer.

Now here are a few other facts for everyone that thinks we are more likely to high grade bucks now then we did with the past antler restrictions that only protected bucks with antlers less then three inches.

Back in the eighties and early nineties the U.S. Forest Service had teams out all over the National Forest checking the ages of the hunter harvests. They also recorded the sex and the antler points for bucks.

What they found was that some years, especially following poor mast crop or hard winter years, that as many as 33% of all of the button bucks checked during the antler less deer harvests were actually 1 ½ year old bucks that didn’t have legal spikes. I too checked hundreds of 1 ½ year old bucks harvested as antler less deer during those years that had a button that was less then a couple inches long though they were often as large in diameter as my finger. Even on a mild winter year as many as 20% of the button buck were 1 ½ years old back in those days.


Then the year following those higher percentages of button bucks harvested being 1 ½ years old they would frequently find that close to 50% of the antlered deer harvested were 2 ½ year old and older. The reason so many of the legal bucks being harvested were 2 ½ and older was simply that they hadn’t been legal to harvest the year before when they were 1 ½ years old.

Those 1 ½ year old bucks that made it through with buttons were the smallest antlered bucks in the deer population yet they were making it through to the next year as 2 ½ year old bucks. They were not only the breeding stock the following year but also the bucks least likely to have quality ranks as 2 ½ year old bucks. Therefore, if there was nay likelihood of either high grading or poor genetics having an influence on the deer it happened a long time ago.

I have only seen one 1 ½ year old button buck killed in the past several years and it was one hit on the road in the fall of 2005 after the harsh winter we had in 2004. Antler quality on even the 1 ½ year old bucks have improved in recent years so any fear of high grading seems to be totally unfounded.

I do still field check some shed antler bucks that get harvested as antler less deer but that is something that has always occurred and always will.

R.S. Bodenhorn

Cornelius08

"And as an end results the older age class of bucks that have been protected by A/R are giving hunters a greater opportunity at a trophy class buck from a much smaller herd.As Planned."

Not happening. There are fewer bucks now including big buck thanks to the extent of hr.


"Do I think H/R has go to far? Yes, as most do. Are lynchings called for? No just some needed adjustments"

And those "adjustments" arent being made and there is nothing that leads usto believe they will be. Pgc has made no new "declarations" and have stated all along they are staying the course, and Rosenberry said he does not want smaller wmus...

So we huntershave twochoices. Go along willingly as is, or get the rope. You may be willing to go along as is if need be, but there are also many who want tight ropes swinging, but only as last resort. They are willing to damage the agency by preventing themselves an increase, lose hunter, etc. all because they won't make the changes that even you yourself said need to be made. So their refusal should be met with "praise" and acceptance??[:'(]

bawanajim

Read that again,.......................slower this time.

Cornelius08

"GIVING HUNTERS A GREATER OPPORTUNITY AT A TROPHY CLASS BUCK......."

You either meant a greater opportunity than previously, even though we now have a smaller herd (which I disagreed with). Or you were saying there isNOT greater opportunity than previously, but greater with the small herd with ar, than there would be with the smaller herd and no ar.

Id agree with the second. If that is what you indeed meant. If thats the case, its not my fault the thought wasnt expressed clearly. If you are saying the first, then I disagree completely.

bawanajim

You cut the quote off at the point in whichI designated "from" a much smaller herd.

Just as I have stated that I thought H/R went to far I wish A/R were much stricter to achieve even larger older bucks.

I haven't got an answer on the slim fast commercial yet.

Cornelius08

"You cut the quote off at the point in whichI designated "from" a much smaller herd. "

I read it Jim. All that means is we have a smaller herd. Still can be taken as I stated above. The main part which was confusing was the part that I quoted, adding the smaller herd didnt clear it up. We know we have a smaller herd.Anyway, such wording can mean the difference between agreeing 100% and disagreeing 100%. I think we agree.

"Just as I have stated that I thought H/R went to far I wish A/R were much stricter to achieve even larger older bucks."

As do I. Unfortunately I think many if notmost wouldnt, so dont see it as "realistic". My area is already 4 pt, and it isnt enoughttoovercome the amount of hr and loss of recruitment effects to number of larger bucks. We have good growth rate here, and alot of yearlings are taken that arelegal. Then pretty much the rest get slammed at 2.5. I believe4 point throughtoutwhat is now 3 point areas would save a substantial amount of bucks and givea real boost there due to slower growth rate, but dont think mostwould accept it.

I am 100% for anything that might increase the pathetic quality of our buck. I dont think it will ever be aconsideration of pgc. They are not in the hunter satisfaction business at all right now anyway.

bawanajim

We can't even get people to pay enough attention to stop shooting button bucks.The P.G.C. with its thirst for money will never punish idiots by making them tag a buck with a buck tag,so these fools blast away at fawns not giving two ****s if its a buck or a doe. I still place the blame on the backs of hunters and hunter greed.We control our own destiny,whether we accept that or not is up to us.

When I was a kid and you were fortunate to get a doe tag you shot a doe or got sack kicked for not paying attention to what you were doing.

bowtruck

some people would rather use their buck tag meat hunters for buttons
it might not be they dont pay enough attention it might be just any deer
to fill that paticular tag
And yes some of hunters problems is greed just like the ones who want
stricter ar they just want better trophys greed you want to shoot bigger
buck wait for bigger doesnt mean the whole state or half of the state
wants stricter ars

muzzyman88

Face it everyone....PA hunting is in the tank....Lets all go to the midwest.