RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Thats an impressive buck! Tell your friend Congrats!!

Did he have that buck aged?

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

So who wants to guess it's dressed weight?:D

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Bleucheese thinks that buck would havehad a larger rackif shot at 1.5 years of age. He can prove it he says.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Betcha he could find enough different "facts" and "figures" and reassemble them to make it look possible!

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

No, we guesstamated him to be a around five. this guy is so poor he cant afford to mount it. so he is doing a euro. Who knows, some hunter might of had him in his crosshairs as a,fork horn, let him pass and look what he growned up to be. And most importantly, all the breeding he did.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

As I said, guys that support ARs don't understand the basic concepts of deer management. The more bucks that are saved by ARs the more bucks will be lost to non-hunting mortality. For example, if ARs saved an additional 40K buck in 2007 with a non-hunting mortality rate of 18% ,7,200 of those buck will be lost to non-hunting mortality which would reduce the buck harvest by 7,200. And ,if 20% of the 2.5 buck weren't AR legal as 2.5 there would be 6,560 fewer legal buck so the total reduction in the buck harvest just due to ARs would be 13,760 buck.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Are you saying that buck wasn't AR legal as a 2.5 buck?

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

very nice buck, wow.

if only we could get those responsible hunters to hunt PUBLIC GROUND in my area, that would be nice.

i cant understand hunters that will kill every deer in area and just move to another and have no feeling for what they have done.

then come back and drive same area again expecting deer to be there .

was this is the 4 point AR restriction area

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

I don't know, I never personally got to meet this deer as a 2.5 year old.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Here is my deer from this past season. The largest I took to date. I am no deer biologist, I only know what I see. And I am seeing more mature big racked bucks taken sinceAR has been inplace than I did in my whole hunting career beforeAR, and I am hunting 35 years now.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

That is simply ridiculous. To suggest we should kill em all right away because they might die next year iscompletely delusional.

Just another desperate TWIST by Blueboy

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

that is a funny way of thinkin let them go year a year and it will hurt the herd lmbo
how?

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Yes,they shouldn't be able to vote. It is not their state and they don't live there.It is none of our bussiness of how you govern your own. So the vote from out of state hunters should be void. How would you like questionaires sent to NY for us to ask what PA could do to betteryour hunting and stay here?That is wrong.It's not up to us and the same for our state,It's not up to out of staters to have a say in our management.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

It is you that is being ridiculous because I never said we should kill them all because they might die next year.
The only way you can defend your position is to lie about what I post.


In 2002 we harvested 52,602 , 2.5+ buck ,before a single 1.5 buck was saved by ARs, so even with ARs we didn't kill them all before ARs were implemented. but, there is no denying the fact that the more buck that are carried over the more will be lost to non-hunting mortality.

So the only delusional hunters are those that deny the reality that ARs decrease the buck harvest and decrease the size of the racks on the average 2.5+ buck.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

No one is saying that but you. And what the heck does "hurt the herd lmbo
how?" mean?

Protecting 1.5 bucks doesn't hurt the herd but protecting 2.5+ buck may.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

twist you wonder why noone replyed to the thread you tried to start the other day

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

I think I see the point you are trying to make. You let a buck go to next year. There are more mature bucks who think they have the right to breed. The more maturebucks out looking for x amount ofdoes the better chance of them getting spladdered on the highway.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

No, I don't wonder why no one replied, because I know there are no AR supporters who can refute what I post.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

You got that right. Then add the number that are poached, those that are killed due to crop damage and other forms of non-hunting mortality and you end up with a lot less legal buck to be harvested.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

it may be you not topic:)

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Please provide a translation in the form of a complete sentence. Have you ever tried the preview feature?

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

As far as crop damage goes . farmers are going to blast them no matter what age they are.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

most farmers dont do that

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

While that is true , the more 1.5 bucks that are saved, the more 2.5 bucks will be killed for crop damage. It is simply a matter of statistics and the law of averages.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Even though some deer of all age classes are subject to non-hunting mortality the buck mortality studies prove once a buck makes it through their first hunting season their non-season mortality is greatly reduced.

The bucks that are being killed by non-hunting mortality are those younger bucks out there before their first hunting season with antlers on their head. If they make it through that hunting season their likelihood of making it the next hunting season is pretty good.

To see the study go to this link.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/reports/2006_wildlife/21009-05.pdf

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

With 18% non-hunting mortality , the vast majority of 1.5 bucks saved by ARs will survive. but that does not negate the fact that 18% won' survive and that 18% is what reduces the sustainable buck harvest,

BTW, statewide breeding rates declined despite of Ars and HR and you haven't provided a single fact to refute that.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

You sound like Morrie on Goodfellas.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

You sound like you don't have a clue about deer management.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Remember what Tommy (Joe Pesci) said to Morrie right after he slid the ice pick into his brainstem?

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Watch the scene for the answer..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elrIcMX3yNI

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

LMFAO!

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

There is no denying, that the more buck that are carried over, the more that will live beyond that present hunting season.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

But there is also no denying that the more bucks that are carried over,the more will be lost to non-hunting mortality and wasted,thereby directly reducing the future buck harvests.

Also, by reducing the B/D ratio ARs reduce the number of over wintering doe, which results in fewer fawns ,fewer BB and lower harvests.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

If that is true, can you explain why less than 50% of the 1.5 bucks that were carried over in 2006,were harvested as 2.5 buck in 2007? If you want to claim those buck survived to become 3.5 buck why were only 10% of the bucks harvested in 2007 ,3.5 buck?

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

2.5 yr old buck 4-7 times harder to kill than 1.5., 3.5 and up, it starts going off the charts. older they get harder to kill legally. Isn't rocket science. I'll stick with the theory/fact that more buck allowed to live one season allows more THE CHANCE to survive to the next. Killing them now eliminates that chance.

Problem I see with your arguements, is you keep baiting and switching. You constantly move from numbers to quality. AR is about quality, and the NORTHERN TIER of Pa. has benefited, regardless of what you may think. I'm happy with the results so far in our neck of the woods, as is every single hunter I hang with. Then again, none of us are " if it's brown, it's down ".

Hows the old saying go about arguing with a fool...........??? Someone help me out here.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

That may be true, but non hunting mortality (winter kills & coyote kills)is almostalways fawns, so not shooting 1 1/2 year old bucks will not increaseadult (over 1 1/2 years) mortality much.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

We have been over the reason for the statewide decline time and again. The facts are obviously either to complicated for you to grasp or more likely they just don’t fit your twisted and misguided agenda.

Once this law suit is a thing of the past I suspect more of the data showing just how far off base you are can be made available. Since you and the rest of Uninformed Silly People tend to twist things so much the Agency has to be pretty careful about what gets posted until your law suit is resolved. Until that time we will just have to work from published reports available on the web site. But, you even misunderstand and misrepresent them very frequently, just as you are doing right now concerning adult buck non hunting mortality.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

"We have been over the reason for the statewide decline time and again."

You've made unsubstantiated claims TIME AND AGAIN and little else. The results show declines as compared by pgc in the annual reports table. Unless you believe them to be complete idiots, the data was intended to be compared to previous years of it wouldnt have been presented in the manner in which it was.
------------------------

As for "more and bigger bucks as we'd been promised, its a big joke. Ive been regularly underwhelmed by the number of quality buck posted in the paper this year, and today is no exception.

Seems Pgc is making their usual excuses. Seems prior to the season we were gonna have a BIG-BUCK free for all if you'd believe pgcs prediction for the coming year. The ehd hit area was supposed to be fabulous, thee place to be because according to pgc not many shot deer there and ehd deaths were insignificant.(although those of us whod seen the rotting corpses and single digit deer density afterwards in many areas knew better)[:'(] And the entire state benefited because of tons of bucks saved by rain on the first day...

What Im seeing in the paper doesnt support those rediculous claims and the local wco has apparently taken notice because he is now making excuses as well.

Excerpt from the article by Rod Shoener: GREENE DEER HERD STILL ON THE REBOUND

Western Greene County Wildlife Conservation Officer Rod Burns said there were some trophy bucks roaming the county this year, but not as many as some hunters might have believed.

He blames that on a "terrible" mast crop. Deer that would normally feed in the woods were forced into open fields to find nourishment. Many of those deer were productsof anter restrictions and sported some really impressive racks...(Ha ha ha[8D])....BUT they were not just the tip of the iceberg as many might have believed. In some cases that was the bulk of the population for the entire area!


HA HA HA. The only reason some might have thought there'd be more is if they made the big mistake and listened to pgc ever since last season! (LOL)More and bigger bucks. What a joke! I loved the preseason headlines of hunter should have the best season for big bucks in 50 years etc. Has been high expectations and promises every year from pgc, yet the yield never comes. The scoring sessions were a joke. The bucks pictured in the papers usually dont even have as many big bucks as we did in the past, and the lies are more sickening to hear by the year.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

The only reason I hunt anymore is to try to match wits and outsmart a mature buck. I have no intrest tagging out the first day with a borderline legal buck. If they dump the AR next season , I will stilllet the1.5-2.5s pass. If I had a choice of tagging out on a spike or going one on one and getting out foxed by the big guy I will chose the latter.

RE: Pa Antler Restrictions
 

Me too. I am all for more and bigger bucks. I dont shoot runts and only hunt with a bow. Unfortunately as ar was implemented with excessive reduction, that was absolutely impossible in most areas of the state.