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BUTTON BUCKS
wondering some ppl on here complain about bb shooters thats 1 deer small deer at that but a big ole doe can be 3 she could have 2 buttons so givin the choice if you dont need meat which would you take
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
I would take the doe. Matter of fact I shot 4 does this year.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
If I didn't want the meat I would let them both walk. Saving BB on a statewide basis is just wishful thinking and totally impractical.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
The doe, always.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Take the doe. If you feel the area doesn't need antlerless deer harvested because the numbers are low, don't take either.
Gotta admit Ryan, that red button was a great idea! |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Look at it this way, you'll get about 15lbs of meat off a button buck. Is that really worth it? I personally prefer to leave them until next year.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
the deer pop around my area is lower than it was so i dont shoot either and i dont eat alot venison so it horns this year
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: BuckAlley Look at it this way, you'll get about 15lbs of meat off a button buck. Is that really worth it? I personally prefer to leave them until next year. I think you need to find a new butcher if you are only getting 15 lbs. of meat from a BB. Add signature | Notify me via e-mail when someone replies [/quote] |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Gotta admit Ryan, that red button was a great idea! |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 ORIGINAL: BuckAlley Look at it this way, you'll get about 15lbs of meat off a button buck. Is that really worth it? I personally prefer to leave them until next year. I think you need to find a new butcher if you are only getting 15 lbs. of meat from a BB. [I butcher my own, and know 2 butchers. By the time you cut up a fawn the total weight of just the meat alone is only 15-18lbs. Alot of hunters don't realize that!!;) |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: BuckAlley ORIGINAL: bluebird2 ORIGINAL: BuckAlley Look at it this way, you'll get about 15lbs of meat off a button buck. Is that really worth it? I personally prefer to leave them until next year. I think you need to find a new butcher if you are only getting 15 lbs. of meat from a BB. [ |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
I butcher my deer and none of the BB we shot produced less than 20 lbs. of usable meat. But we are hunting in farm country where a Bb can be almost as big as a 1.5 spike. So, if you are talking about BB from 2G or 2F you might be right.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
15, 18, 20, 22, 25lbs. I'd still prefer to let them walk, and gain more weight for next season! To me thats just not worth the effort, and I don't see much reward in it. Leave'em for next seasons fun! But thats my personal opinion.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Every year I see yearling and fawn deer and they are always in the same general area and show up like clockwork every day. To me, the experience of watching them helps pass the time while not seeing much of anything else. So it is more rewarding to me to watch these young deer interact with one another chasing and playing with each other. It is not challenging to me to shoot one of these deer who for the most part are oblivious to presence of hunters who take scent precaution and play the wind. With every hunting season a deer survives they become smarter and at 3 1/2 or older they then become more challenging to outsmart and then it is more rewarding to harvest them for the meat and the experience. Just as BTBowhunter stated... If there are few deer in your area why kill either? Let the buckgo to grow and the leave doe to reproduce. Just because you are able to get a doe tag doesn't mean it should be used in your area of a WMU where it is allocated. There are neighboring states with low license prices where deer can be taken to fill your freezer. It costs a little more but it also puts PA's management practices into perspective when hunting states like Ohio. I hunt PA and have done well but if I had to choose between hunting either PA or Ohio, I choose Ohio. It's just a much better experience and the deer are plentiful and the buck I have seen on average are bigger.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
If there are few deer in your area why kill either? Let the buck go to grow and the leave doe to reproduce. Just because you are able to get a doe tag doesn't mean it should be used in your area of a WMU where it is allocated |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
all the hunters that are complaining about not seeing deer shouldn't buy an antlerless license. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Would you still think it was good advice if the PGC only sold 200K or 300K tags?
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: bluebird2 If there are few deer in your area why kill either? Let the buckgo to grow and the leave doe to reproduce. Just because you are able to get a doe tag doesn't mean it should be used in your area of a WMU where it is allocated |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
We stopped killing does in our area a few years back.Others take care of the doe kill.
But it really has a small impact because 99.9% of the land around us is open to hunting and like anywhere else in this state if most land is open to hunting you're gonna have few deer. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: germain We stopped killing does in our area a few years back.Others take care of the doe kill. But it really has a small impact because 99.9% of the land around us is open to hunting and like anywhere else in this state if most land is open to hunting you're gonna have few deer. At this time the block hand will come to play. Take a piece of paper and put two slashes on the top. Under them put two slashes each as for their fawns . And the next year two more slashes shows that by killing two doe you did what to your herd? The idea that if you don't shoot them some one else will is bunk. Let them go!!!!!!!!!!!! |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn ORIGINAL: bluebird2 If there are few deer in your area why kill either? Let the buckgo to grow and the leave doe to reproduce. Just because you are able to get a doe tag doesn't mean it should be used in your area of a WMU where it is allocated |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Yep....no gain in playing cowboy because it wont work.
If you don't want to shoot antlerless, don't buy a tag. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Idisagree and this is why... In a state where the game commission estimates 40% of the hunters do not report their kills it is anything but a science as to why they do what they do.There are others who will argue your point as being just the opposite. If they report their kills then the Game commission is either- A. Satisfied with kill numbers and will continue on their courseor B. feels we need to kill more deer. The only time allocations drop is when there is a reduction in harvest. So your point that by not filling out a harvest card will inevitably lead to more allocations is proven to be opposite to what has been happening in terms of allocations. I agree with the other argument which goes against your's. If they are not meeting their quota what logical justification would they have to raise allocations? Common sense would imply that if the deer were there they would be getting shot. If they are not getting shot and their quota is not being met with the concurrent doe / buck season it would be a more realistic assumption or "guestimation" that the deer are not there in the abundance they thought when allocating antlerless tags.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: germain We stopped killing does in our area a few years back.Others take care of the doe kill. But it really has a small impact because 99.9% of the land around us is open to hunting and like anywhere else in this state if most land is open to hunting you're gonna have few deer. At this time the block hand will come to play. Take a piece of paper and put two slashes on the top. Under them put two slashes each as for their fawns . And the next year two more slashes shows that by killing two doe you did what to your herd? The idea that if you don't shoot them some one else will is bunk. Let them go!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah we let them go alright and most still get whacked.But hey we save a few. With the two weeks of snow cover this year they really made out because the area is thick and without snow the deer slip by.I watched a couple of stupid does wander down through sticking out like a sore thumb in the snow.They got whacked.Without that snow cover I wouldn't have never seen them and I doubt the others would have either. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
In a state where the game commission estimates 40% of the hunters do not report their kills it is anything but a science as to why they do what they do. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
You can believe that if you want. In Pa, we have by far the least accurate method for reporting kills. Fill out a card andsend it out in the mail (if you feel like it). Let's say by a miracle 100% of hunters report their kills next year... do you believe for a second the Game commission would stick with that number???? And would it show a mirrored result from the previous years or would it be lower? They want to show a higher percentage of killsto downplaytheir flawed mgmnt program. It doesn't matter what happens they will always say there are more deer than what there are and they will always claim higher success rates to combat license sales decreases. Scientific, huh? You can't apply science to man's greed. There is no way of accuratelyestimating the number of deer taken illegally nor deer taken in varied habitats across the state where hunting pressures vary. you can't say Number Y equals total deer reported and then multiply Y by .40 = Z and the add Y + Z = total deer killed. You are overestimating the PAGC's work ethic, they don't go through all the work you described. I know almost all the butchers in my area and if the WCO's come around it might be once a season. How does that give an accurate estimate of anything???
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn You can believe that if you want. In Pa, we have by far the least accurate method for reporting kills. Fill out a card andsend it out in the mail (if you feel like it). Let's say by a miracle 100% of hunters report their kills next year... do you believe for a second the Game commission would stick with that number???? And would it show a mirrored result from the previous years or would it be lower? They want to show a higher percentage of killsto downplaytheir flawed mgmnt program. It doesn't matter what happens they will always say there are more deer than what there are and they will always claim higher success rates to combat license sales decreases. Scientific, huh? You can't apply science to man's greed. There is no way of accuratelyestimating the number of deer taken illegally nor deer taken in varied habitats across the state where hunting pressures vary. you can't say Number Y equals total deer reported and then multiply Y by .40 = Z and the add Y + Z = total deer killed. You are overestimating the PAGC's work ethic, they don't go through all the work you described. I know almost all the butchers in my area and if the WCO's come around it might be once a season. How does that give an accurate estimate of anything??? For example, the TV networks can accurately call an election with just a few percentage points of the votes actually in. Is it exact? Never. But it'salways very darn close. Close enough that it's withi a few percentage points. No deer harvest reporting method is ever going to be perfect and I'd rather see a phone in or internet reporting system. Check stations are only slightly moreaccurtaebut they require far more money and manpower than the slight improvement in accuracy would warrant. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
You really have no idea what you're talking about,The PGC checks about 30000+ deer each year.they then crosscheck them with the report cards and it gives them a reporting rate.they can then calculate how many deer were killed.It's as accurate as any method and more accurate than most.What do you think would be more accurate,check stations?How do you know how many hunters actually check in their deer?Seriously,if you're too lazy to send in a self-addressed post card,why would you drive out of your way to check a deer in?Those state that have check stations have no way of knowing what their reporting rate is.Therefore,their method is no more accurate.Besides,who's lying?Everyone is complaining that the herd keeps decreasing and guess what?the antl;ered harvest has shown a steady decrease.Where's the deception in that?
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Besides,who's lying?Everyone is complaining that the herd keeps decreasing and guess what?the antl;ered harvest has shown a steady decrease.Where's the deception in tha The harvest data isn't the problem, what they do with the data is the problem. Doug, what warehouse a were you talking about? |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
bb,from 1972-1989 Weused to live in that westgate housing development that was on rt 6 about 7 miles west of Tunkhannock.I'd say it was a mile past where rt 6 and trt 87 came together.It used to be all farms around there and then about 10 years or so ago,a huge warehouse was erected and all that hunting land gone forever.If you stay on rt 6 and head toward Meshoppen,it will be on your left.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
And I'll bet that a lot of the deer you say were over harvested ,were some of the same deer you saw later on the P&G property. As you know ,in farm country ,heavily hunted deer will travel significant distances to find a secure area.
BTW, what is you definition of an over harvest? |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
I highly doubt it BT.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
You may doubt it ,but I've seen it happen in areas where I hunted and there is no reason why it wouldn't happen around P&G.
BTW, what is your definition of an over harvest? |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
It's tough to define.However,I remember years when 40+ deer were killed on less than 300 acres.One year in particular,I think it was 85' or 86' we had snow cover.You literally couldn't walk more than a couple hundred yardswithout seeing a blood trail or gut pile.The woods looked like a slaughter house.I remember,driving those same areas out in muzzleloader season that year and hardly even cutting a track.I honestly remeber thinking every deer had to have been killed but the deer always returned the next year when the crops started coming up.As a kid growing up,competition for a spot was fierce.Today,it's rare if I even see another hunter in the woods.I can honestly say,no way did hunters even slightly impact deer numbers in any of the multiple places on public land where I've hunted the past three years.I don't see hunters or boot prints.Unless pa hunters float above the ground like Pa mountain lions,our public lands in the northcentral part of the state are very under utilized.
Those deer never went to P & G property. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Douge I have personaly seen deer on pg prop why dont you think they would go there
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
P & G property is loaded with deer.That isn't the question.BB is trying to say that they traveled several miles to get there when pressured.
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
oh i see sorry dougE ;)
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RE: BUTTON BUCKS
Back to the main question.
Yes..... If given a choice, I always shoot the BB. I hunt in 2A. I feel that bucks get too much protection, especiallly with the 4pt AR in place in that area. I see lots of sub legal bucks when hunting. I've seen some pretty impressive 6points too. There are times I'd see more bucks than does. The EHD that hit that area last year really took a toll on the deer, yet this years I still seen 6 bucks and 4 does on the first day. I see fewer deer nowadays but of what I do see, most are bucks. So yeah, shoot the BB's |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
ORIGINAL: DougE P & G property is loaded with deer.That isn't the question.BB is trying to say that they traveled several miles to get there when pressured. How long do you think it takes a spooked deer to run a mile? Here is what you posted before on another thread. BB2,The area I'm talking about in Wyming county is located on rt 6,several miles away from P&G.I spent most of my early years hunting within that area and never saw more than maybe 12 deer a day and that was rare.I'm not talking about the area right around the plant.Obviously that area could never be over harvested.I used to hunt a farm that bordered P&G property during flintlock season inthe late 80's and we routinely saw 30-40 deer each day. |
RE: BUTTON BUCKS
hey bb do you know how fast they can run and for how long ?
must be a stat on that somewhere |
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