2 whole deer
 

2 whole deer taken in gamelands 52. A button and a doe.Around 60 hunters on the some 2000 acres throuhout the day. Myself and friends spent the day at the parking lots.We were not hunting.Just interviewing the hunters. 7 seen deer ,2 taken ,3 missed. Gamelands 52 is in southern Berks county, 5c area where 94,000 doe tags were given. WOW ,super day.Yes I know what we did maybe was"nt 100% correct,But pretty close.Spent 14 hours doing it. You all come to the conclusion.I am sure The Pa game commission will say the hunters were just lazy and stupid.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

it was the weather

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Sorry forgot that excuse.Deer go invisible when they get wet.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Let me get this straight. There are very few deer and there were 60 guys trying to kill them. If there truly is a unhuntable deer population there, WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO KILL THE FEW THAT ARE LEFT???? Just because they have a tag?? I bet if there were two deer left on this earth, a buck and a doe, someone would kill them if they had a tag!! Than blame it on the PGC that the last two deer are dead. . There is no doubt in my mind

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Amen brother. We are very very fortunate to have an abundance of land, habitat, wildlife etc. in this country and the freedom to bear arms and hunt. I completely understand that many hunters do not have the resources to travel all over and are mostlyrestricted to hunting in their county or town. However, there should be no expectation that a government agency is obligated to control/populate/regulate every acre of public land with an abundance of shootable game.

Live, hunt and enjoy every moment.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

The reports I'm getting on public land aint good.
I was fortunate enough to see two and 1/2 deer.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Who is asking for an abundance of shootable game? Most hunters would be more than happy with the number of deer that habitat can support, rather than the number that will allow regeneration of preferred commercially valuable timber.

Saw a grand total of 3 does in a day and a half of hunting in 5C. No one shot a buck that I am aware of in our general area and there was very little shooting.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

I seen an elk in 2G on monday. If I didn't look 3 or 4 times it would of been my biggest deer ever if I pulled the trigger. LOL I seen 3 deer in 2 days and 2 of them was shot by my friends during our drives. 3 deer from about 7 drives. This was in 2G and 2E.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

So you saw three deer and you guys shot two?hmmmm

RE: 2 whole deer
 

14 hours doing that? You could have probably found a good spot to hunt in those 14 hours????????? hmmmmm...........

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ahhhhh yea. It is hunting season is it not and they did issue doe tagsto us for 2E. Whatare we supposed to do? I looked in the game book and it said I was to hunt these animals and try to kill them and we did that. Was we to waite to make sure there was more deer before we shot these deer? I didn't read that in the game book. If I see them,I will try to kill them. That is the reason of hunting season is it not?

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Bullmoose ,My goal is not to wipe the deer herd out.It is to try and get across to people you cant expect to kill all the deer and have a future of good hunting ever again. I already got 2 buck in a State on property I manage. And I let 51 doe walk in 3 days. The neighbors will take some.They aint hogs either. Yes some doe must be taken,SOME,.I get so frustrated watching so called hunters TAKE,TAKE,TAKE from the system and never put anything back. You have property,plant food,You hunt on someone elses ,help with there cost. Dont depend on the Government to take care of the herd. Thats socialism. We need to Take the bull by the horns and do our part . And yes I still buy a Pa license,and this year jointly a group burned 3600 doe permits. A one to one deer ratio is great. But why kill the doe to even it out. Bring the buck numbers up to meet the doe numbers. This fairy tale if you want big bucks you got to kill more doe is a fairy tale. I owned property in south Texas and hunted many states.Big bucks come from genes,food and age, not killing all the doe. You all do what you want,and listen to the Governmental oriented game commission. And live with the future.If enough of us keep yelling maybe the powers to be will listen if they fear their job.After all we did get some of the doe allocations lowered and a delayed doe season up north.I dont do this for myself,I have my own place,But the future for the youth is a stake. I dont dislike any true hunter and wish you all well. But just stop and think about it. And think of the future instead of ME,ME.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

You're so far out in left field,it isn't even funny.Guys like you,guys that need to see 50-75 deer a day are why we need so many less deer today.Theundeniable truth is that we had way too many deer for way too long.It's undeniable and there's reams and reams of evidence to support that fact.There is no government conspiracy about this and it has nothing to do with gov entitlements.If you want to spend money to feed an overabundance of deer on your property,knock yourself out.The truth is,nobody should have to spend a dime to feed deer.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

you are correct it is hunting season so have at it.It's ashame one got away.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

I'm still waiting for some improvement around rockton Doug.The herd has been down long enough up there to show some signs of regen or at least undergrowth.Looks the same.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

I strongly disagree.It only looks the same in the areas that almost 100% oak and haven't been cut yet.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Doug, Next year I will be culling some doe on my property. Right now I have somewhere around 50 doe and 19 buck. If I decide to do so. Would you like to take one. Out of state license and doe tag I think will be around 150.00,plus your travel and motel. Believe me its exciting to see dozens of deer go by all day. You have to experience the pick and choose amongst so many challenge. Not easy to shoot a selected deer in the midst of a herd and thicket. 100 eyes watching you.Must be a mature doe and no buttons.SLug gun only. I only want a 50 yard sure kill shot taken.1 deer is to important to chance wasting. Infact any game is.Have a good day. Must go fill feeders and molasses dripper.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

My supervisor, who is a pretty darned good hunter, returned from his camp in Tioga County. He hunts the canyon area somewhere south of Rt 6, which is in 2G. Between 8 hunters in camp for 3 days of bear season, several days of scouting, and 2 days of deer hunting, they seen a total of 4 deer for all days combined. A total of 12 shots were counted in 2 days for deer. He said he heard more shooting during bear season.

This is sad news, but it sort of gives me some redemption for feeling so bad about not finding any deer during the October inline season when I went up to see what all the fuss was about.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

There's sections of 2G that have very few deer and even some areas devoid of deer.
Some say habitat,some say anterless kills,and some feel once the deer numbers were brought down so low the predators had more of an impact.I kinda liked the predator theory but then I thought about public land in the SE and SC where deer numbers are also very low yet predators and or bad winters are few and far between.
So for now I'll go with the anterless kills.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Pa hunters will kill deer until the last one no longer stands. Afterall, that'sthe main reasonthe PGC came into existance....hunters wiped out the herd.The PGC and DCNR suddenly realized this againsomewhere along the line, and use it to their full advantage to satisfy the wants of various groups like Ben Moyers Eco Management Project.

What are you to do? Well I have my thoughts, but I better not post them. Best just to say it's a shame that 3rd one got away.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

You Pa guys. Seems everyone of you have a degree in game managment. Everyone has the answer and knowhow on how to fix Pa's deer problem. Amazing to say the least.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Cardeer,thanks but I have more opportunities around here than Ihave the time for.I agree that seeing alot of deer is exciting.I remember the days back in the early 80's where seeing dozens of deer a day were not uncommon.The hunting was easy and we became spoiled.Today,I find it much more gratifying to actually have to hunt for deer.It's a year long mission for me and I take it serious.

Germain,you are correct.2G has alot of places with very few if any deer.Thing is,every one of these areas that I know of also has very little if any food to sustain a large deer herd over the winter.Why would anyone want to add more deer to these places?

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Rickmur,please feel free to dazzle us with your brilliance on a solution to our deer problem since we are so inept at resolving our own problems.God knows we don't contribute enough money to have a say in what goes on in this state.Is it a democracy down in the Cheasapeke or do you guys just do what your told ?

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Doug,one thing I find in common with the areas devoid of deer is easy access.Some of these places could use a few deer.In the SE and SC public lands most cases the habitat isn't an issue.Overharvesting is.
These areas could and should hold more deer but do do that another management option would have to take place.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

germain,i feel your pain.come out to sw pa and try hunting the wastelands they call gamelands around the Burgettstown area or down in Greene County near Ryerson Station Park and you'll have the same issues.Plenty of food,just no deer.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Rich,I don't doubt that public land near populated areas gets hammered.That simply doesn't happen around here.Sightings are down in this part of the state because nobdy is out there moving the deer.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

[quoteRickmur,please feel free to dazzle us with your brilliance on a solution to our deer problem since we are so inept at resolving our own problems][/quote]

fella, I'm not the one talking **** here, never said I had the answer nor ever implied I did. I'm not as smart as you or theother self proclaimed professors of game magt. You can take that to the bank;)

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Because the deer in 2G have proven that the habitat in 2G can support over twice as many deer as we currently have in 2G. The habitat in 2G supported a buck harvest of 10,100 buck in 2003, compared to a buck harvest of 5100 in 2007. Furthermore , the PGC said the herd was below its goal deer density in 2003!

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Apparently you've never seen huge vast areas of pole and saw timber with no understory or browse.We have huge areas like that in 2G and it makes no sense to add more deer to that type of habitat.If the deer are eating everything that starts to regenerate,you have too mnay deer,regardless of how many are there.That's the reality in many places.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Show me where they said the herd was below the goal in 2003.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

The goal for 2G was 15 DPSM. here are the PS deer densities for 2004.

Table 8. Pre-hunt deer density
(deer per square mile) by WMU, 2004
to 2005 Pennsylvania. NOTE: Deer
densities are used for monitoring
population trends and are not used
for setting management goals.
WMU Oct. 2004 Oct. 2005
1A 24 25
1B 24 27
2A 38 40
2B 30 36
2C 22 20
2D 33 32
2E 29 32
2F 27 22
2G 16 12
3A 28 28
3B 28 28
3C 28 24
3D 20 19
4A 23 18
4B 23 19
4C 31 28
4D 22 21
4E 21 26
5A 19 15
5B 21 21
5C 33 32

Pleas note that in 2004 there were only 16 PS DPSM in 2G and in 2005 it dropped to 12 PS DPSM.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Curious, WTF does a half a deer look like? :D

RE: 2 whole deer
 

It obviously depends on which half you are looking at. didn't you ever look at a deer?;)

RE: 2 whole deer
 

I would be curious to see what those figures are for this year. Probably worse in most areas. The problem as I see it is multi layered.
1. Habitat. Yes 2G has acres and acres of state forest land. And most of these areas need to be cut. Problem is the terrain is too steep in most places to log out. And the tops of the mountains are nothing but mountain laurel.
2. This year the mast crop was horrible. Very few acorns in the areas I hunted in 2G and 4E.
3. Licenses and hunters. The PGC has alloted too many anterless licenses for too many years. And most hunters feel they just have to fill them. There needs to be lower allocations or hunters have to stop filling ALL their tags just because they have them.

I believe it was back in the 50s when anterless hunting was stopped for 2 years.

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In 70s I believe it was.

Also the PA land area is 45,000 SQM and they give out over million doe tags and take in the numbers of bucks harvested and that wipes out your deer herds quite fast over 5 years of deer being slaughtered.And yes it is the PGCs fault and not the hunters who recieves the tags. If I buy a tag I am going to use it. Believe this or not. 95% of people who get doe tags are going to attempt to fill them.
Don't blame us,blame the PGC for the tags issued. AsI told a friend of mine from school who said they was going to burn their doe tag. I told him a waiste of money because to many tags given out and the few tags that are burnt is not going to make a difference on publicland one bit.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Cardeer...........................is that you????


I don't post here much anymore - Ididn't recognize you by 156 posts.

FH

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Yea farm hunter the real deal

RE: 2 whole deer
 

That's interesting BT because I can't find a link with that table.I do however have the annual report from 2003.On table 2 it shows that 2G had a MINIMUM owdd of 12 dpsm.The goal for 2G was 15 dpsm and they were saying that the minimum was 12.That does not mean allor even most of 2G was below the goal.

RE: 2 whole deer
 

Here is the link to the AWR.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/p...e/21001-05.pdf

Apparently the 12 OWD in 2003 was the actual number of OWD and not the minimum. So it is pretty obvious hat they reduced the herd in 2G from the goal of 15 DPSM to 8 r 9 OWD PSM in 2006. Therefore, it is also obvious that the habitat in 2G can support more than 15 DPSM ,since breeding rates and productivity didn't increase as the herd was reduced.