The Alleghany national forest is a whole other issue.Why did the deer deer disapear back in the 80's?It wasn't because of antlerless allocations.

"Where the herd has been reduced the most the forest is still rated poor and there is no indication they intent to allow the herd to increase any time soon."

Even in areas where the forest ISNT rated poor the herdis not and will not be permitted to increase. Also, evenin areas of "claimed" stabilization, more tags are being issued and the harvestgoals have been HIGHER then they were when PGC recorded reduction had taken place! As occurred in this wmu, You simply dont reduce a herd by approx 7% with 45,000 tags and a harvest of 16,500-- Then the following years claim the goal is stabilization, yet have a harvest goal of 18,000 and issue 55000 to 60,000 tags every singleyear since!!

Its kill the deer and when it becomes unacceptable and unsupportable to the masses...and when their own data and guidelines no longer show need for reduction and it cant even be STRETCHED.... Then they just lie about the intentions and kill kill kill some more.[:'(]

LIES LIESand more LIES.

Actually it was a combination of the severe ice storm in the late 70's ,which killed thousands of deer, plus the antlerless allocations which limited the ability of the herd to increase.

Go look back at the history of the harvests for that area over that time period and then make that same determination.Also,document thatthe ice storms killed that many deer in that specific area.I wasn't aware off the ice storms deevistating the herds near Tionesta.They put a pretty good beating on the deer in and around Sinnemahoning but the doe tags didn't keep the dd down in that area throughoutthat time period.

Feel free to post the harvest data from that area for all to see. Then post the doe tag allocations and the PGC goals for that area. Did you forget that the PGC began managing the herd based on the carrying capacity of forested habitat in 1980?

Ok,here it goes.Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Tionesta is in Forest county.Here's random sample of antlered and antlerless harvest for Forest county starting in 1975,prior to any ice storm

A AL
1975 1388 1244
1976 1669 1191
1977 16581773
19811397 2793
1984 1322 1305
1987 25103342(CALCULATED HARVEST)
1991 2589 4555
1994 2415 3823
1999 2764 2724

I don't see any evidence that supports you case that ice strorms or doe allocations devistated the deerherd in this areaduring that time period.

I didn't say the herd was devastated. Here is what I said.

The data shows the buck harvest decreased by 23 % from 1976 to 1981 and that decrease was directly related to the ice storm.

After that the antlerless harvests kept the herd at those reduced levels and prevented the herd from increasing to the MSY carrying capacity of the habitat.

You don't think killing another 1200 or so does in 2007 had any effect?

You didn't provide any data for 2007 ,so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Sorry,I meant 1977.