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Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3535638)
I'm talking about when you purchase your hunting license.
The issuing agents have the computer. No need for everyone to own a computer. Make it mandatory that you provide the issuing agent with info on what and where you bagged your deer the previous year. If you don't provide the info, you don't get a license. Seems pretty straight forward and easy to get a more accurate kill tally. |
WW7 said it would be in addition to the current reporting system ,rather than a substitute.
Even though results would be a year late, comparisons could be made to the report cards by mail and computer reported kills |
That would be intersting.I'd like to see those results.
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i have to agree with PGC needs an overhaul.. and i know people will give me grief for stating this, and some will agree. i hope most would agree. I seriously think PA needs to go back to the 3 day doe season. my reasoning behind this is simple.
1. PA is under antler restriction. the slaughter of does.. which is what is occuring because finding a legal buck is becoming harder for the average joe hunter, and so they get a doe tag, and then a bonus tag and from personal experience.. just in my area on private land connecting to public land. we had an over abundance of does 5 years ago (72 does in 1 field in 2003) now we are down to about 15. i know this cause i watch deer here on a year long basis. and 15 is just an estimate. but every year this number is dropping significantly due to over doe harvesting. 2. with the antler restriction in place button bucks are getting crushed. with the restriction and going back to the 3 day doe season bucks will almost get a hunt free pass for its first 2 years, and the amount of button bucks shot will decrease, making way for a higher buck to doe population. and dont let this make me sound like a trophy hunter cause im not. but we have the antler restriction in place for a reason, if we kill all the button bucks there will be nothing left to take the place of the big boys that get shot, and fewer bucks will get taken, resulting in more does being harvested Also i think the game commission needs to change its regulations on accidental harvest. the way the regulations are set up. i doubt any1 would report or turn in a mistaken kill. for instance. took my best friend hunting during 08 archery season. he shot a 6 point thinking it was an 8 point. (the line between 3point and 4 point was 100 yards away) so he turned it in to the game commission stating it was a mistaken kill he thought he was on the 3point side not the 4 point side.. he was fined 250$ lost his liscense for the year and animal was taken.. now im no lawyer but i found that extremely harsh. esp since the hunter was following the law. he could have very well tagged the animal as shot in the 3 point county, but he chose to do the right thing and report it.. |
Originally Posted by nwtrykon87
(Post 3535712)
i have to agree with PGC needs an overhaul.. and i know people will give me grief for stating this, and some will agree. i hope most would agree. I seriously think PA needs to go back to the 3 day doe season. my reasoning behind this is simple.
1. PA is under antler restriction. the slaughter of does.. which is what is occuring because finding a legal buck is becoming harder for the average joe hunter, and so they get a doe tag, and then a bonus tag and from personal experience.. just in my area on private land connecting to public land. we had an over abundance of does 5 years ago (72 does in 1 field in 2003) now we are down to about 15. i know this cause i watch deer here on a year long basis. and 15 is just an estimate. but every year this number is dropping significantly due to over doe harvesting. 2. with the antler restriction in place button bucks are getting crushed. with the restriction and going back to the 3 day doe season bucks will almost get a hunt free pass for its first 2 years, and the amount of button bucks shot will decrease, making way for a higher buck to doe population. and dont let this make me sound like a trophy hunter cause im not. but we have the antler restriction in place for a reason, if we kill all the button bucks there will be nothing left to take the place of the big boys that get shot, and fewer bucks will get taken, resulting in more does being harvested Also i think the game commission needs to change its regulations on accidental harvest. the way the regulations are set up. i doubt any1 would report or turn in a mistaken kill. for instance. took my best friend hunting during 08 archery season. he shot a 6 point thinking it was an 8 point. (the line between 3point and 4 point was 100 yards away) so he turned it in to the game commission stating it was a mistaken kill he thought he was on the 3point side not the 4 point side.. he was fined 250$ lost his liscense for the year and animal was taken.. now im no lawyer but i found that extremely harsh. esp since the hunter was following the law. he could have very well tagged the animal as shot in the 3 point county, but he chose to do the right thing and report it.. Just to be sure i understand. Did you just say that your friend shot a 6 point in archery thinking it was an 8 point and he made the mistake because the deer was 100 yards away or was he hunting 100 yards from the border between a 3 and 4 point area? |
he made the mistake of shooting it 100 yards away from the 3point area.. so he had shot it on the 4 point area, thus his reasoning for turning it in. this was archery season of 08. his first deer ever with a bow. and in his defense it was my camp he was hunting that he had never been to, but he did acknowledge his mistake of restriction lines when he turned the animal in. he could have just said he shot it in deerfield county which is a 3 point side, but he shot it 100 yards from the county line which is basically a road, and the only reason it didnt make a true 7 or 8 point was due to the fact that its brow tines where 3/4 of an inch, and not a legal 1 inch which the commission officer put the tape to and reminded my friend no less than 12 times. in my opinion that was ridiculous
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For the love of God would you people get Gary Alt, the old three day doe season and deer check stations out of your minds.
They are three of the dumbest, mindless, pointless and just plan stupid ideas from the past that didn't work, couldn't work and wouldn't work, please take a second or two and think ahead new ideas or please dial 1 800 dialajoke and speak to some one on your own level.:confused0024: |
Originally Posted by nwtrykon87
(Post 3535742)
he made the mistake of shooting it 100 yards away from the 3point area.. so he had shot it on the 4 point area, thus his reasoning for turning it in. this was archery season of 08. his first deer ever with a bow. and in his defense it was my camp he was hunting that he had never been to, but he did acknowledge his mistake of restriction lines when he turned the animal in. he could have just said he shot it in deerfield county which is a 3 point side, but he shot it 100 yards from the county line which is basically a road, and the only reason it didnt make a true 7 or 8 point was due to the fact that its brow tines where 3/4 of an inch, and not a legal 1 inch which the commission officer put the tape to and reminded my friend no less than 12 times. in my opinion that was ridiculous
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For the love of God would you people get Gary Alt, the old three day doe season and deer check stations out of your minds. |
Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3535831)
The 3 day doe season worked just fine from 1980 to 1997. We harvested more doe in 1988,1990,1991,1993,1994 1995 and 1997 with a 3 day season than we did in 2008 with a 2 week concurrent season, an early ML season ,an early jr/sr. season and an extended rifle season in 5C.
HMMMM three days of doe pinball and an obvious slaughter during those three days vs many weeks of hunter opportunity resulting in a similar harvest. Isn't hunter opportunity the real product we should expect when we buy a license? Back then it was a doe shoot. Now it's a hunt. I'll take the hunt, thank you:biggrin: |
Did you forget you just proposed a 2 day antlerless season?
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Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3535843)
Did you forget you just proposed a 2 day antlerless season?
Perhaps you should go back and read it again. I did no such thing. I merely pointed out that there was always a mechanism in place for extending the doe season when it was 2-3 days and no law change would be needed. |
Originally Posted by bawanajim
(Post 3535801)
For the love of God would you people get Gary Alt, the old three day doe season and deer check stations out of your minds.
They are three of the dumbest, mindless, pointless and just plan stupid ideas from the past that didn't work, couldn't work and wouldn't work, please take a second or two and think ahead new ideas or please dial 1 800 dialajoke and speak to some one on your own level.:confused0024: |
Originally Posted by BTBowhunter
(Post 3535847)
Perhaps you should go back and read it again. I did no such thing. I merely pointed out that there was always a mechanism in place for extending the doe season when it was 2-3 days and no law change would be needed.
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Originally Posted by bawanajim
(Post 3535850)
.................................................. .........
Alt came up with a lot of new ideas that reduced the buck harvest to levels we haven't seen since 1970. Is that the kind of new ideas you support? |
Originally Posted by bawanajim
(Post 3535801)
For the love of God would you people get Gary Alt, the old three day doe season and deer check stations out of your minds.
They are three of the dumbest, mindless, pointless and just plan stupid ideas from the past that didn't work, couldn't work and wouldn't work, please take a second or two and think ahead new ideas or please dial 1 800 dialajoke and speak to some one on your own level.:confused0024: For you short bus riders I will try to make it a bit simpler.:s5: |
Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3535856)
You do not know what you are talking about. once the seasons are set in April the PGC is prohibited by law from extending the seasons due to bad weather resulting in poor harvests.
Please cite the part of the game code that says that power was removed. |
Please cite the many ,many times they extended the doe season. You are simply blowing smoke and have no idea what you are talking about.
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Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3535876)
Please cite the many ,many times they extended the doe season. You are simply blowing smoke and have no idea what you are talking about.
I know that I hunted more than one Saturday that was an extension of the doe season. It was done on a county by county basis based on field reports and surveys at processors by WCO's. (they were known as DGP's at the time). Just because you are uninformed about some of the history of our deer management doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sproul, Spurs, Germain, Jim,DennyF, Doug I cant be the only one who's long enough in the tooth enough to remember those days. It would have been in the 70's and 80's. there was even a big flap about the times they tried moving doe season to the end of the week for a few years because it didnt leave time for an extension without getting too close to the holidays. |
The entire history of deer management in PA is listed on the PGC website. All you have to do is go back a cite the times they extended the antlerless season. You can't do it because it only happened one time before it was challenged and found to be a violation of the law.
That is precisely why they went to the concurrent seasons,because they didn't need the approval of the legislature to make that change. |
Why do I get lumped in with those old coots?:barmy:
Right off hand I can remember two years.One year there was a three foot snowstorm in Clearfield possibly 93 or 94? Another year I think was before that when ice storms fell during two of the three day season. Possibly another one back in the early 80's or maybe even 70's when I was hunting Potter but can't say for sure.I do know one thing,people raised h$ll whenever it was extended. |
BB,do you happen to know which year?I thought for sure it was at least two?
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http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...=625882&mode=2
Didn't find any mention of it in here.I won't argue the point because I'm not 100% sure except for one year that it was extended.I 'll never forget that one.I know there was talk other years about extending it but now I'm curious. |
Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3535889)
The entire history of deer management in PA is listed on the PGC website. All you have to do is go back a cite the times they extended the antlerless season. You can't do it because it only happened one time before it was challenged and found to be a violation of the law.
That is precisely why they went to the concurrent seasons,because they didn't need the approval of the legislature to make that change. Not quite. the history on the website, is simply a synopsis and not very comprehensive. BTW Many parts of the website are currently not working since the new revisions were put in place. In the meantime, here are a few links that show that title 34 provides for extensions. These are more recent that I spoke of but they do explicitly say that extensions of the antlerless seasons are provided for. PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 00-377 The authority for the proposal of these amendments is 34 Pa.C.S. (relating to Game and ..... and antlerless deer seasons or extensions only by hunters who ... http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/dat...30-10/377.html PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 01-939 This amendment was adopted under the authority of 34 Pa. ..... regular antlered and antlerless deer seasons or extensions only by hunters who have a valid ... http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/dat...31-22/939.html Oh and you might want to read page 6 on this one. 1990 was one of those years where the season was extended. It wasnt always statewide. It was county by county. Perhaps it didnt happens as often in your area. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...context=ewdcc5 |
Why do I get lumped in with those old coots? 
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Originally Posted by germain
(Post 3535894)
BB,do you happen to know which year?I thought for sure it was at least two?
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I know it happened in 1990 for most if not all of the state and it also happened around 1976 or 77 in Forest County for sure. I remember having to miss the early part of that week for college exams and was thrilled to get the chance to go out on Saturday.
Those years you mentioned also ring a bell Rich. I'm not sure but I think 93 and 94 were northern tier counties only. |
Originally Posted by BTBowhunter
(Post 3535920)
I know it happened in 1990 for most if not all of the state and it also happened around 1976 or 77 in Forest County for sure. I remember having to miss the early part of that week for college exams and was thrilled to get the chance to go out on Saturday.
Those years you mentioned also ring a bell Rich. I'm not sure but I think 93 and 94 were northern tier counties only. That is simply pure nonsense. the season was not extended in 1990 since the harvest that year was a new record high of 245K with only 806K tags. If you are going to make up stories please check the harvest data first ,so you won't look like a fool. |
Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3535927)
That is simply pure nonsense. the season was not extended in 1990 since the harvest that year was a new record high of 245K with only 806K tags. If you are going to make up stories please check the harvest data first ,so you won't look like a fool.
You really should check that last link that I posted. Thats where the information came from. Page 6 refers to the 1990 extension. The PGC can extend the 3-day AL deer harvest
season if the AL deer harvest is deemed inadequate, and there was a 1-day extension in 1990. |
I too recall several times in my youth that the 2 day or 3 day season was extended.
One vividly recall it pouring rain for the two days we hunted. |
Sorry i missed you post with the link, but in this case it looks like we were both right. However, I am surprised that they didn't extend the seasons in 1998 and 1999 when we had 3 days of rain and fog and harvests that allowed the herd to n 13 % in 1998 and by 15 % in 1999. Could it be they wanted the herd to increase so Alt could use that to sell his plan?
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Originally Posted by bluebird2
(Post 3536150)
Sorry i missed you post with the link, but in this case it looks like we were both right. However, I am surprised that they didn't extend the seasons in 1998 and 1999 when we had 3 days of rain and fog and harvests that allowed the herd to n 13 % in 1998 and by 15 % in 1999. Could it be they wanted the herd to increase so Alt could use that to sell his plan?
Apology accepted. I'd really like to see where it was ever said that the season couldn't be extended. I really cant recall ever hearing that. As for 98 and 99 I couldn't guess what was in the decision making process but I doubt that your Alt conspiracy theory was the reason. Those that opposed him then for the most part were already the ones that had complained virtually since the first bonus tag was issued. There would have been little effect either way form what you suggest. |
It was extended in 1985 and again in 1987 or 1988.I remember specifically because the one year I missed doe season because of finals in college and got to hunt that saturday.I remember that vividly because I took my brother's brand new 06 out in the freezing rain and he was ready to kill me.He was equally upset when I shot a doe with it and it didn't drop on the spot.I'm not positive,but I believe it was also extended in either 1992 or 1993.We got three feet of snow that doe season and got dumped on again that march.I beieve the extension was 2002.I know for a fact it happened at least twice if not three times since 1980.
BT is also correct about them realizing that they had no authority to extend the seasons several years later when they wanted to.I forget the details though and don't know if it was ever fixed. |
The GC was given the opinion from it's staff attorney that extending doe season with out going thru the whole process of notifying the public and allowing so many days for public input would be in violation of Commonwealth code.
They could extend doe season but it would have to occur like late Jan or Feb if you followed the law. By then almost all deer are anterless and you would most likely be dealing with terrible hunting weather and impassible mountain roads. Gino |
Didn't they have to give something like a 30 day notification?
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As for 98 and 99 I couldn't guess what was in the decision making process but I doubt that your Alt conspiracy theory was the reason. Those that opposed him then for the most part were already the ones that had complained virtually since the first bonus tag was issued. There would have been little effect either way form what you suggest. |
Alt wasn't in charge in 1998 and 1999, but the plans were already in place to push for further HR so DCNR could get their forests re-certified. |
Sproul, Spurs, Germain, Jim,DennyF, Doug I cant be the only one who's long enough in the tooth enough to remember those days. It would have been in the 70's and 80's. there was even a big flap about the times they tried moving doe season to the end of the week for a few years because it didnt leave time for an extension without getting too close to the holidays. |
Originally Posted by BTBowhunter
(Post 3536170)
Apology accepted.
I'd really like to see where it was ever said that the season couldn't be extended. I really cant recall ever hearing that. We have discussed your suggestion and we will have to make some changes to give the Executive Director the authority to extend the season. My understanding is that we are working on having that in place for the 2010 season. I would like to have specific harvest goals that would trigger the extensions, with various options that can meet the population goals. |
Originally Posted by ManySpurs
(Post 3536259)
Straight from the horses mouth in an email dated 11/3/2009
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