NYC Hunt A M

My name is Martin T. Mc Donnell. I am the Region 2 - Big Game Committee Representative to the NYS Conservation Council. I love deer hunting and am a huge proponent of "better deer management". Although, I welcome information and discussion from any and all sourcesI would like to hear from NYC and Long Island residents in particular, as I am trying to organize an e-mail group and am calling it NYCHAM (New York City Hunting Alliance Movement). For too long the NYC area residents have been accused of not doingour fair share in the way of shaping and influencing hunting and conservation issues in this state. Hopefully, my group will be willing to do something about that. If you are interested in the exchange of pertinent information, discussion and taking the necessary action (e-mail, letters, faxes, or phone calls) towards better hunting and deer management please contact me at [email protected] (I need your name and borough or town).[/align]

Steve863

Just curious, what do you consider "better deer management"? I would be interested in what types of issues you guys have in mind to help shape and influence before I would give support to this organization.

NYC Hunt A M

Hello Steve,[/align][/align]I am a strong proponent of the QDMA philosophy. Herd management, habitat management, hunter management and herd monitoring are the cornerstones of better deer management.I believe antler restrictions are an integral part of a better management philosophy, butthey are not the sole answer. They must be combined with better habitat management and tighter doe management. With that formulain place we as hunters can have a reasonable expectation of better deer hunting and a healthier deer herd.[/align]Steve, you may have gotten the impression that I am starting an organization. Which is and isn't true. I have many friends around the state. I have great sources (friends) of information throughout the QDM Association as well as the DEC and the NYS Conservation Council (of which I am a participant). I participate in most of the major forums and lists around on the internet. My agenda (so to speak) is to reach out to as many hunters from the NYC and Long Island area in hopes of keeping them informed with timely information and getting them to respond to issues that ultimately effect deer hunting and conservation issues. For example; A couple of weeks ago when the Youth Hunting Bill was on the floor of the Senate and eventually the Governor's desk, I implored hundreds of New Yorkers (all over the state) to write, fax, email and call the necessary representatives in order to get the message out that "we" cared and "we" were watching. I'd liked to think "we" made a difference.[/align][/align]There is NO money involved, or to be made. Deer hunting and conservation are my passions. If you subscribe to the NY Outdoor News you may recognize my name as I have addressed numerous issues in "letters to the editor". In fact, in the August 8th edition I took to task the writings of an obvious "slob" hunter. My writings have appeared in several outdoor columns in several upstate newspapers.[/align]I hope I have answered your question sufficiently. If not, ask me anything you want.[/align]

Steve863

Thanks for your reply. I sort of had a hunch that antler restrictions might be part of this "better deer management" plan. I myself am completely against antler restrictions. I feel that the deer herd does not need to be managed for the quality of a bucks antlers but for total deer numbers in the habitat available to them. I think nice trophy deer could be had without antler restrictions by hunters who are willing to put in some extra effort. I see NO need for something like antler restrictions. It puts too much emphasis on the trophy hunting which should be no concern of the dept. of environmental conservation. There are probably MORE people who purchase hunting licenses that are happy with any deer they get than there are trophy hunters who push for things like antler restrictions. In my opinion why should a minority of hunters be getting what they want, and the majority have to be restricted to what they can shoot? I don't think it is fair in the least.

SteveBNy

I am with Steve 100% - not to attempt to dampen your enthusiasm for overall management.

But I will adamantly resist any attempt at MANDATORY AT/trophy management anywhere in NYS.

Steve

NYC Hunt A M

Steve, open discussion and opinions are a big part of the communication network that I am starting with NYCHAM. We, as a state are in the first phase of a new deer management plan that include antler restrictions. AR's (I think we can all agree) will help to enhance an imbalance in our herd's age structure. That being said it is an improvement over what we had. The DEC did not just cave in to the whims of a few hunters to placate them. They realized that deer and hunting would realize an immediate benefit. Not only willAR's positively effect herd age structure and enhance breeding scientology, but the larger antlered bucks that we will gradually see will help revitalize the interest in hunting and we definitely need that. The fact that a hunter will now have to take an extra longer look at an animal accomplishes a couple of things. 1) less accidents and 2) less senseless wounding of the animals that we love. The DEC saw this as a win-win situation and were smart enough to learn from the Pennsylvania experience that they could not ram it down the throats of sportsmen. Hence, the gradual introduction in a modest amount of WMU's. Keep in mind that many of the brightest minds in biology and a huge groundswell of hunters are behind this QDM movement because science is telling them that it is the best methodology for healthier deer and certainly a positive influence on hunting in general. Are AR's the final answer? NO. Are they an integral part of the beginning phase of better deer conservation? ABSOLUTELY! Be patient and give it a chance, I believe the long term benefits far outweigh the short term inconvenience. Happy hunting![/align]

Steve863

These brightest in biology have been paid by trophy hunters to come to their conclusions, I can assure you! Deer NUMBERS should be managed by a state game agency, and not the number of points on a bucks head. This age structure argument is lame when a 1 1/2 year old buck can breed just the same as a 3 1/2 year old and pass on the same genetic make-up. Your suggestion that a benefit of AR's would lead to less accidents is irresponsible. Hunters should know exactly what they are shooting at at ALL times, not just under AR rules. I am sure I won't change your mind here, nor will you change mine, but I would only wish that you guys would be honest about things and say that your biggest thrill in hunting is killing trophy deer, and cut the lies that a better age structure benefits a herd. It does absolutely NOTHING in respect to improving a herd as a whole or the habitat it lives in.

NYC Hunt A M

Steve you have taken an argumentative and insulting tone and frankly I don't have the time for it. Your suggestion that my "less accidents" theory is irresponsible is irrational. There are a lot of "ignorant" hunters out there whether YOU realize it or not. People who do take "sound shots" and drive around with loaded guns in their vehicles and "shine" at night. For you to suppose that I am irresposible by putting that out there is frightening.
[/align]For your information it is a proven fact that older breeding bucks positively enhance the breeding rut and absolutely reduce the likelihood of "skewing". That is covered in deer science 101. You once had the opportunity to learn things like that from "NYCHAM". Now, I am no longer interested in having you participate with us. [/align][/align]For your information on July 23rd, 24th, 25th and 26th of this year no less then 20 of the brightest minds of deer science (from all over the world)gathered in Chattanooga Tennesee for "think tank discussions" and seminars" --- for FREE -- at the QDMA Convention. Names like Dr. Craig Harper, Dr. Mark Conner, Dr. Michael Chamberlain, Dr Steven Demarais, Dr. Mickey Hellickson, Dr. James Kroll, Kip Adams, Dr. Karl Miller, Dr. Grant Woods, Dr. Craig Dougherty etc. etc. etc. They paid their own way and did not get paid for there appearance.[/align][/align]Furthermore, for you to suggest to this forum that I have been disingenuos is assinine. You don't know me and apparently are not open minded enough to educate yourself about deer biology. Happy hunting![/align]

livbucks

Hot button issue for sure.
People either love AR or hate it.
I personally am very happy with AR implementation in PA.
I hope NY can come to some consensus, without the wars like PA had.

Steve863

I apologize if my tone sounded harsh to you. That was not my intention. I have been hunting deer for 30 years now, and realize that there are a good many slob hunters out there, but in my opinion AR's will do absolutely nothing to change such activity. Do you think the QDMA is something other than a group whose main purpose is to grow big antlered deer? Sure they want to make it look like they are concerned with an entire deer herd, but the bottom line to them is big trophy antlers! No way anyone will convince me of anything different. I would bet that all the biologists you mentioned are trophy hunters or associated with trophy hunting in one way or another. That they paid there own way to get there doesn't mean much when they will surely be profiting from their appearances somehow.

And yes, I AM open minded about educating myself about deer. I am also a realist and can clearly see when something is being given a biological twist when in fact it has been created solely for the trophy hunters benefit. If we want to talk biology, why don't we take man out of the picture altogether and bring back wolves, mountain lions, etc. to control the deer populations. I wonder how much they were concerned with the age structure of the deer?