bluebird2

Here are the results from another study.
[quote]Conclusions
The cause of sugar maple decline has been difficult to deter-
mine because of the ephemeral nature of decline episodes and
the fact that decline seems to occur as a result of the interaction
of several factors, some of which vary temporally. Historical
accounts of sugar maple decline generally have reported a tem-
porary increase in mortality followed by a period of recovery
and improved health (Giese et al. 1964; Robitaille et al. 1995).
For example, sugar maple decline reported in Quebec in the
1980s has been followed by gradually improving crown con-
dition and growth (Allen et al. 1992a; Payette et al. 1996).
Our data do not allow precise determination of the sequence
of interactions involving drought, defoliation, nutrient status,
or other extreme events necessary to promote sugar maple de-
cline. The continued incidence and severity of maple decline
in this region coupled with the failure to adequately regenerate
these stands reinforce the need for a comprehensive under-
standing of the important relationships affecting maple health.
However, our study has demonstrated the importance of Ca
and Mg nutrition in the dynamics of sugar maple health. Lim-
ing has been shown to reverse some of the negative resulting in increased tree
vigor, growth, and seed production.

DougE

I never stated that certain species like sugar maple weren't effected by acidic soils.What I stated was that there was no differencebetween the regeneration in the limed and non-limed areas that I looked at.If you don't believe me,go look for yourself.

bluebird2

So sugar maple regeneration is affected by acid soils , but liming doesn't make a difference according to you? So once again you disagree with the experts just like you disagree with the experts from the PGC about herd health in 2G.

DougE

Nope,that's not what I said at all.This area had an overstory that was predominatly oak/hickory.While we did notice some red maple,gum,birch,sasaphrass and a bunch of other species,we didn't see any sugar maple that I remember.why would I mention the effect lime had on sugar maple when there was none in this area?

DougE

I actually disagree with the experts at the PGC from time to time.I think it's ridiculous to base the herd health on the conception rate of the small number of road killed does being checked.

bluebird2

For the sake of discussion, let's assume you are correct that liming had no beneficial effect on regeneration. Now let us add that reducing the herd in 2G has also had little or no beneficial effect on regeneration according to the PGC and DCNR. The PGC says only 41% of the plots survey had successful regeneration in 2006 and DCNR said only 24% of the plots surveyed statewide had successful regeneration.

So is fencing the only viable solution to successful regeneration or do we have to reduce the herd to 5 DPSM?

PA GOBBLER

yep that's the view Mark Nale had in his article.[/align][/align]Speaking of growth,Ive found a lot of cuts fenced and non fenced. One thing ive noticed just this summer is the amount ofsassafras growing, even in the fenced in areas, and it seems to be chocking out the oak and other good treesthat's trying to grow. This is going on in clear cuts and select type cuts. My question is whats up w/ all the sassafras as ive never noticed so much of it before? [/align][/align]Back to the topic we need to talk to our reps and tell them how we feel, they need to change the law and let the burning go on.[/align]

bluebird2

When there is adequate light sassafras will sprout from the roots just like beech, so it has an advantage over trees that only regenerate from seeds or stump sprouts.

PA GOBBLER

Thank you

DougE

That's correct.Sassaphrass root sprouts.Unlike beach however,deer will eat it.The burns intitiallytake out the sassaphrass in the areas I looked at but because they root sprout,it looked like they pop up pretty fast again.The fire does a pretty good job of wiping out the striped maple however.