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PGC burning sgl in pa.

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Old 08-11-2008, 08:08 PM
  #11  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Doug- What were your thoughts on the limed areas? I heard that they worked great, but also (think i heard) that Jeff in Raystown didn't have as good of results. I say keep the fires going and the chainsaws cutting and if the lime is working have at it. [/align]
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:55 AM
  #12  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Well,We looked at several areas that were limed and the adjacent areas that were not limed.It was my opinion and the opinion of two foresters that there was no difference in the regeneration between the limed and unlimed areas.The only exception was that in certain areas,the bracken ferns seemed to really take off.

s
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:09 AM
  #13  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

There is no reason to expect and improvement in regeneration in the limed areas if the ferns weren't eliminated. Shading by the ferns were obviously the limiting factor preventing regeneration.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:33 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

We've discussed this many times.Not every square foot of the areas limed had a fern problem.In fact,most of it did not.However,in the areas where bracken ferns were present,they seemed to take off better as a result.The bottom line is,the lime didn't do squat.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:44 AM
  #15  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Did you check for any variation in species composition in the different areas?
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:57 AM
  #16  
Typical Buck
 
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

I read that it worked great, and they were able to get tree types to grow that they were not able to get to grow before. Doug, the PSU guy did he feel the same as you or was he happy w/ the limed areas?
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:17 PM
  #17  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

BB,yes we did check.Species were similar in the areas limed and unlimed.I'm telling you,there was no noticeable difference.I don't know why this is a surprise.Dcnr and the US forest service have both done testing with lime and found that it had very limited benefits.

Gobbler,I read that article by Mark Nale as well.That's what promped me to call DCNR and asked to be showed those areas.I was out there with the district forester from DCNR not a forester from PSU.I also talked with another forester from DCNR that's done extensive liming studies and his opinion on the sites was the same as mine.Both DCNR foresters and a PGC land manager felt the lime made no noticeable difference.Come up and I'll show you myself.There's some pretty cool studies going on up there.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:01 PM
  #18  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

I believe you, but normally Mark is on top of these things and he felt it was working and also noted that people disagree on it. At the end of the day long as they are trying and doing things it works out for us. Doug I have been getting out, in fact ive found some really neat stuff going on. I can say the GC land managers have been doing lots and my hat goes off to them
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:13 PM
  #19  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

I usually like Mark Nale's columns as well.In this case,I'd have to question if they looked at adjacent areas that weren't limed.The regeneration was pretty good in many areas but no better in the limed areas vs the areas that weren't treated.Without a doubt,the increased regeneration was do to one thing,less deer.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:26 PM
  #20  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

This is what PennState had to say about the effects of liming.

"
"Study data revealed that the benefits of liming were reduced by the relatively large amounts of sulfur deposited in forest soils as a result of many decades of acid rain," says Sharpe. "When herbicides were combined with lime and fertilizer treatments, woody seedling numbers, diversity and height growth improved significantly. Results were not as good for limed plots without herbicide treatment due to competition for growing space. But where ferns were damaged and partially eliminated by logging equipment, woody seedling growth was very good."
An increase of red maple trees in Pennsylvania forests has been noted in the last decade, occurring at the same time that northern red oaks have been decreasing in prominence, a trend that concerns many foresters. Sharpe believes his research has shown one reason why. "The red maple is a more acid-tolerant species," he says. "Residual red maple tended to grow better on the more acidic herbicide-only plots. In fact, it could be argued that the standard red oak shelterwood cut with herbicide treatment favored red maple growth."
So ,we have the results provided by an independent with no ties to the PGC ,verses the opinions of a PGC supporter and a couple of DCNR foresters. Believe whoever you choose, but I find it highly unlikely that DR. Sharpe would made claims that could so easily be refuted.
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