RE: PA antler restriction
 

4evrhtn You make some great points but I fear they fall on deaf ears. This man needs some help and by asking him questions that he feels over-qualified to answer you set him back to a comfort level. If you read his last 2 posts to me he was short circuiting. If it were a case of differing opinions, I could see continuing the discussion with him, but this man is dealing from a different point of mindset. What a shame because he is obviously intelligent.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Are you asking what should be done on the statewide level or are you asking what should be done on private property that is managed for deer hunting?
I didn't say that. What I said was, that on average, the 2.5+ buck produced by ARs, will on average be inferior for the rate of antler development compared to a non-AR herd. You may be over looking the fact that in PA , ARs not only protect 50% of the 1.5 buck, they also protect around 20% of the inferior 2.5+ buck, so the most mature bucks doing the most of the breeding will be the inferior 2.5+ buck that were protected by ARs as 2.5 buck.

If that scrub racked buck is protected by ARs or a spread restriction and lives for six years,how many does do you think he will breed and how many fawns ,both male and female will carry his inferior genes?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I also believe this man is intelligent. That is why I asked the questionsI did. This is his moment to show he has done some thinking of his own rather than just twisting what others say. Also, I am sure Dr. Kroll would prefer he notbastardizehis life's work by putting a spin and taking the words that suit him and leaving others out. He has no problem throwing out every negative opinion possible but few postive things.

Once again Bluebird, What would "YOU" do?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

What would you do statewide?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

When you answer my question ,I will answer yours and thanks for the compliment.

I am not spinning Dr. kroll's words from his article. I provided direct quotes in their proper context, unlike BT who reached erroneous conclusions based on his spin of Kroll's article.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Since the PGC only controls a small portion of the land in PA about all they can do is allow the herd to increase to the true MSY carrying capacity of all of the habitat, except in areas where the population needs to be limited due to deer human conflicts. Those that want larger racked bucks will still have the opportunity to have the challenge of hunting for 2.5+ buck , since we harvested more 2.5+ buck in the first year of ARs (2002),than we did in 2007, after 6 years of ARs.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

First you said this in POST #408
"Rack size does not determine which bucks do the most breeding"
Refer to post #431 You did in fact say this.
A scrub buck or basket rack is in my mind is any buck under 90" total. Most scrub buck still exceed the legal requirement if given 2.5 years of growth, then harvest him before he continues to breed which in Pa most hunters will shoot instead of passing him up. Still even if he lives 6 years he won't breed as many does as a buck with better genetics.

Now, once again share your wisdom with me on what you would do right now to better our deer herd. I figure eventually we may agree on something other than the game commission losing credibility which nonetheless you still quote despite your admission of disbelief in them.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

Ok, so.. let me get this straight. Because we are not killing more deer"due to AR " we have less deer. So... if we kill more deer, then we will have more deer??????? HMMMMM interesting concept, please explain because I apparently need help understanding this logic.

RE: PA antler restriction
 

you left one thing out.. less doe and buck were harvested last year. Of course, someone can say more AR legal buck harvested the first year b/c hunters had to pass up more yearlings for the first timebut the population as a whole is declining across "most" of the state. Still, please explain how killing off most the young buck every year is beneficial, how does that help the population? How does that help the health of the herd or the quality of the herd?

RE: PA antler restriction
 

I still stand by that statement, but the 2.5+ buck that weren't AR legal will still be bigger in body size and more mature than the average 2.5 buck and therefore will do more breeding and pass on inferior genes for antler development. While some good 2.5+ buck survive to become 3.5's , the vast majority of the 3.5 buck will be those that were protected ARs 2.5 buck.

I told you what I would do on a statewide basis. Do you expect that I changed my mind already.
That is true, but it is also true that ARs are responsible for about a 30,000 decrease in the total sustainable ,since there are around 30,000 fewer over wintering doe due just to ARs.