RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

BLUEBIRD2 ,this is what is happening and it has ruined my area i like to hunt in.

i left doe/fawn go last year,i dont kill doe anyhow.
in came crew with kids and killed mother/fawn.

2 out of state hunters were yelling at crew for doing this,they had guts to tell them off.

now, that could have made my DPSM go up to around 5 if they would have left those deer go,now i am at 3.

that crew then got in cars and said to me,WE SAW 2 DOE DOWN ROAD 4 MILES AWAY,WE GOING AFTER THE MEAT.

then, IN CAME 3 MORE CREWS, yes, 3 more crews in first week alone.

how can we ever MANAGE the deer if that is going on.
you cant .

then you see car after car ROAD HUNTING from 5 am ,yes 5 am in morning.
with freshsnow on ground, deer stick out very easy and are shot in dark at 5 am to 6;30 am.



deer are getting pressure at all directions.

its wonder if any are left here in WMU2G clinton.potter county.

i have no idea how to bring herd up a little if all things i see happening continue.
it makes you mad what is happening and anyone who CARES cant see what they are doing is wrong.

MEAT and NO RESPECT for doe that are left and DCNR/PGC that are behind all of this.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

No, I didn't miss the point you are making. It is simply that it is not a viable solution to the problem of very low deer numbers.


The point you are missing is that your solution only applies to a relatively few individuals. If the PGC decided to increase the doe tags in 2G to 52,000 like in 2002, more hunters would harvest deer and the herd would decrease even more. Is that what you want?

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

So in other words.2G should have enough deer running around thatso hunters don'thave to venture far into the woods or scout.Give me a break.The hunting is just fine in 2g as long as you stay away from the the vast tracts of overbrowsed forests with no understory and very little food.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

The hunting was just fine for the 11,700 hunters that harvested a deer in 2G in 2007, but it wasn't just fine for the 30,000 or 40,000 other hunters that didn't harvest a deer, because there weren't enough deer to support a larger sustainable harvest. Hunters can't harvest deer that aren't there no matter where they hunt or how hard they hunt.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

........Somebody needs to get them glasses. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see the understory has been abused for years. Regeneration needs to take place. Deer behind every tree just ain't gonna get it. Sometimes I think some people would rather see massive deer starvings over winter just to perpetuate a fallicy they consider "the truth" and what "hunters" want.... JMO.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

The understory you claim was abused for years produced a harvest of over 30K deer in 2003. Now the same habitat is producing a harvest of 11K deer and the forest health has not improved according to the PGC. Maybe you are the one that needs glasses.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

......You just want to continue raising cattle in empty fields, don't you? I'm tired of trying to talk sense to an empty drum. Do you wish to come to my camp and see the non-existent "browse line"? I put it in quotes because it's no longer there. And don't even begin to give me your empty rattling that that's because the deer are no longer there to eat it. It's been gone for YEARS!!! Too many deer have eaten themselves out of house and home. HR absolutely needed to happen. Yes, it's not the same as it was some years ago, and I doubt that it will ever happen again with the numbers there once were. The herd was totally out of control up there. Those days are what many people refer to as "the good old days". It was a disaster waiting to happen. I have glasses. Perhaps you need your prescription changed.........

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

You don't need glasses to see what is happening when you know the history of our herd and our forests. If your were right the deer would have destroyed the habitat in the 70's when there were 40 DPSM , but they didn't. Instead after the crash due to the ice storm in 1978 the population continued to increase despite the PGC's attempts to control it. Then with high allocations during the 90's they brought to population in 2G down to 15 DPSM by 1999. The habitat in 2 G which the PGC claims is so bad can still support 20 DPSM but that would make DCNR , the timber industry and the Audubon very unhappy.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

Yep,the deer can still live and reproduce inthe poor habitat of 2g just like the underweightdisease ridden people of Africa and many other third world countryies do.I see the deer herd increase in this poor habit over time until a bad winter of two knocks the snot of them,like what happened in 3003-2004.In any event,some areas of 2G can certainly handles 20+ dpsm and many areas with better habitat or more foodhave dd's like like that.Can all over 2G support those kinds of dd without further damage to the habitat?Absolutely not.I've spent many hours in the woods with foresters and biologists from DCNR,PSU and the PGC.They have all the proof in the world toshow exactly how the deer have impacted the habitat.Ispent alot of time around Pawildman's camp with the district forester from DCNR.Theyhave a pretty good handle on the dd in this part of Moshannon state forest because of the FLIR and pellet counts done every year.They also have excellent regeneration records going back many years.Just nowthey're starting to get good enough regneration that they don't have to fence some of their timber sales and the overwinter dd is right around 9-10 dpsm.Does that mean the area can't support more deer?Nope,it supported more in the past.However,the habitat will never recover if they let the d get that high again too soon.In poor habitat like you find all across 2G,it takes far fewer deer to continue to impact the habitat.This is all about fixing the habitat for the benefit of more than just the deer.It' not about raising the maximum number of easy targets for hunters.

RE: DCNR asks for less DMAP tags but....
 

How did they have records of excellent regeneration going back many years when there were a lot more deer many years ago?

So hunters are paying the price for DCNR saving money by not fencing. In other words our herd is being managed so DCNR and the timber industry can make higher profits.