RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

was color of that wolf a RUSTY RED COLOR?

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

I live in North/West N.J.and my 16 year old Son saw a Cougar this November on the farm we lease in Sussex county. I reported it to the DFG&W and they first told me it must have been an exotic animal allowed to roam free. Then they wanted the exact location for "their records only". I know of at least 6 other sightings in this region over the last 7-10 years.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

well, at least they did not tell you it was bobcat or housecat or their favorite one,THEY DO NOT EXIST.
yes, they are using the PET thing now,cant be wild cougar.:eek:
yes, pgc here in pa. is also taking info now do to pressure from our state reps.

look atthis site for more info.

www.easternpumaresearch.com

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Sorry but some coytes here reach 80lbs., they are the biggest killers of deer here. Being big makes them leaders of the pack and it is estimated most of them are in fact around 80% wolf. But still are known as the Eastern Coyote.. Though it still was possible to be a wolf, as 1 was shot here and the guy spent some time in jail for it as well as fines and will never be allowed to hunt again. It was a black one that he misstook for a bear..

Here is a pic I had up last year that a friends son caught in a trap..Last year he had a coyote half eaten by another one when he got to his traps.. Happened overnight. This pic is just about 2lbs. shy of 80lbs.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

No. It is the classic grey/black/white look. Though it's been quite awhile, I believe it weighed 110lbs, not field dressed.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

i guess our coyotes are lot less in weight.

i had 2 coyotes come into me today,i think in same pack we got 2 out of earlier this month.

this is first year in awhile that we are seeing more than 2 hunting together..

you are talking about WOLF,are wolves rusty red brown or was i seeing a LARGE COYOTE in that color which we have not got one in that color or saw one like that or size.

that WOLF i believe i saw was BIG or long .
rt144 is not real wide road, when i saw him his tail looked like it was touching the edge of berm and his nose close to yellow line .

in 50 yrs of hunting ,i never in my life saw so many coyotes and other predators.
this started about 10/12 years ago we started seeing coyote tracks and never did and dad said he never heard of coyote or ever saw track here in clinton/potter countyto much back from that time to 1915 or so area.

heck, a COUGAR sighting you never heard of ,now, its a common occurence for most hunters you talk to that said they saw one.

most of sighting are from 1996 to now on COUGARS and also coyotes.no one all thru my childhood or my dads ever said they saw COUGAR other than at camp in left branch of youngwomans creek,a friend of dads said he shot at cougar trying to break into camp during the depression in 1930.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

okey dokey;)

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Charlie, I think he left out a few key words that would've made it all makebetter sense.....

heck, a COUGAR sighting you never heard of ,now, its a common occurence for most hunters you talk to at the local barthat said they saw one.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

.......and you left out 2.

"heck, a COUGAR sighting you never heard of ,now, its a common occurence for most hunters you talk toat the local barin Renovo that said they saw one.


;):D

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Ever going to answer this one?

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

charlie, i thought i did answer that.
the article said that cougars are being chased out of the states,l;ike BLACK HILLS by other cougars.
they feel that cougars are multiplying fast and the females are chasing males out of places like the BLACK HILLS.

i wish i was better at putting info on here,like that article but i dont know if law would let me put it on,copy rights etc.

if you would PM your address to me,i could mail you the article,IF I STILL HAVE IT,i started doing my taxes,you know what that gets into.:D

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Maybe thats way there is NO proof of them in NY - they all go to Pa?;)

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

steve,we feel,not what article said that cougars would come from ny down to pa.
we dont feel they come all way from BLACK HILLS to pa.

i had a WCO tell me coyotes are coming from ny to pa.so, why not cougars.those adironacks mtns you have is more wild than anything we have here in pa., i know, i worked there in 1978,real wild areas there.

there is 600 confirmed sighting in ny,did you know that.
1400 in pa.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Sightings confirmed by who??

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

go to their site and e-mail them that question,they will answer it back to you.

then post it on here for us, thanks.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

steve, pa had 1400 sighting,ny 600,so pa. is really hot spot vrs ny.

the question is this for all of us.

why in last 10/12 years that cougar sightings are being seen more than i have ever heard..
same with coyotes, in last 10/12 years coyote population exploded here in pa.

WHY?

WHEN SOMEONE CAN ANSWER THAT, THEY WILL ANSWER THE COUGAR QUESTION TOO.

why are we seeing all these predators that we never saw before ?:eek:

PS,if these predators were not released as PGC says they did not do,THEN HOW DID ALL THESE PREDATORS GET HERE?

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Easy answer.There's no proof of mountain lions and coyotes have always been here.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Name a state that doesn't have coyotes.Did the PGC stock coyotes in all those states as well?

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Why? Because it's been shown time and time again that a surprising majority of hunters can't tell the difference between a Bobcat and a Mt. Lion. We have shown here with CLEAR trail cam pictures of Bobcats that an alarming number of people still see Mt. Lion in the pictures.
If SPORTSMEN (Guys who supposedly spend a large part of their lives outdoors) can't tell the difference when they have hrs or days to look at a photograph how on EARTH are we supposed to take any fleeting sighting seriously?
LOL Come on. I'm not saying there hasn't been some oddball off the wall escaped Mt. Lion at some point in the modern history of PA, but if anyone thinks there is a breeding population in PA? WOW.

There's a guy right now on Archerytalk INSISTING that the fuzzy picture of a black housecat he took with his cell phone is a Mt. Lion. 1/2 the guys agree with him and you almost have to be blind to NOT see a house cat.

People will see what they want to see especially since the animal it's being confused with is so rarely seen on it's own.

Coyotes.........they are just tenacious animals and breed like crazy, but you know what there Sproulman? I have a camp right there in 2G ,smack in the middle of Mt. Lion overpopulated predator ground zero. We've pushed every inch of everything south of Keating for 15yrs, take a guess how many Mt. Lions we've seen in 15yrs?
I've personally seen 1, exactly 1 Bobcat, and 3 coyotes, and surprisingly no Mt. Lions or any Mt. Lion evidence.[:-]SHOCKER.

The people seeing Mt. Lions see what they want to see, same as the UFO or Bigfoot people, only the Mt. Lion sightings are quicker to come out because they are a real animal being confused for a native one.

Don't show me fuzzy 300yd away pictures with no scale or reference of where they are from, don't tell me about BIG cat tracks (You ever hold a 50lb Bobcat? I have) Don't tell me about MRs. Jones poodle who dissapeared right after she saw a Mt. Lion run across her backyard.

Show me a body, or better yet get one to smile pretty for the camera while standing in front of the Snow Shoe exit sign on I80.

Oh and don't worry about the little metropolis of Renovo, I'm not going to damage the precious little town.........we contribute to the economy every single hunting season.;)

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

I just went to AT and read the entire thread.I'm glad they even threw in a token bobcat picture.Once again it reafirms how clueless most people are.At least there were only about four posts with people claiming to have seen collared mountain lions and confirmation that the PGC released a couple breeding pairs.It's scary to think these people have loaded weapons with them in the woods.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

It's scary to think these people have loaded weapons with them in the woods.

If we're lucky, they mostly stay indoors at their keyboards.:)

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Yep here is justONE example of many why it's hard to take the cougar thing seriously..........

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=568837&highlight=Cougar

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

the cougar i saw was seen at cemetery on KEATING MTN.

I HOPE YOU KNOW WHERE THAT IS.

my relatives OWNED keating mtn where you now hunt.
i grew up hunting there when it was nothing to see 40 deer a drive.
my cousin was mike donelly,he ran motel there near bottom of keating mtn.now i believe its owned by pete kinsely group DIRECTOR of the USP.talk to him, i bet he has storys to tell on cougar or coyotes in that area also.
his camp is along river near rr
tracks and is a good friend of mine.

i have friends that have camp on keating mtn also.

they have big gang and have been there for 30 yrs or more.
they hunt the KELLEY ESTATE,hope you know where that is?
they saw COUGAR and lots of coyotes and lots of bobcats.

also you have local hunters in big crews, from renovo that i know.
they drive all of river hills etc in keating, have been, they have camp there for 70 yrs, yes 70 yrs..

did they see cougar,you bet.
did they see plenty of coyotes, you bet.
did they see lots of bobcats, you bet.

i have seen over 30 bobcats in years i have hunted in clinton/potter/cameron/centre/so/lycoming.
i saw 2 coyotes last week but did not get shot, this is when i found all those pine trees pulled over,i have topic started on that too.
being ilive in lock haven, i have easy access to many counties close to home.

you can find me everyday ,i can in woods ice fishing at bush dam or coyote hunting..

i of my friends ALONE got 12 coyotes?
most were in clinton county.

dont want to get off the cougar topic on to coyotes.

but therereliable reports of cougar sighting in keating.

would you like to talk to 3 of my friends that live in bitumen.
i assume you know where that is?
they all saw cougar and 2 of them saw cougarmore than 1 time and i trust them on what they saw..

they have hunted that area all their lives,50/60 years.

guess what, none of them ever saw cougar before, none..
no one has a story of cougar back in OLD DAYS ,not in their family or MINE.

SO, cougars we are seeing has happened from about 1990,s to now.SAME with coyotes.

believe what you want,i am not trying to change your mind.

yes, some sighting with cameras could most likely be BOBCATS ,1 in keating we had we had it tested.

it turned out to be a BOBCAT,i reported on that on here and too the newspaper.

but sighting by SPORTSMEN who are in woods from birth that know a bobcat and i know personelly, i TRUST THERE WORD ON WHAT THEY SAW..

did you know that local DCNR boys saw cougars also in clinton.

they are out there everyday.

again, believe what you want.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

No - those where reports - not confirmations. They would have had to travel thru a lot of populated land to reach Pa.
600 with NO proof of any kind - not 1 picture, carcess, track, hair sample - NOTHING.

Until there is something real and verifiable - I will believe the truth - no wild pop in NY.

Steve

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

pa and ny are close/
we have 1400 SIGHTING here and steve,YOU have 600.

when i was at meeting at lock haven university on trying to save our deer here in WMU2G,i happened to notice a official that is involved with predators here in pa.

we had coffee and talked, he stated that he felt the coyotes were migrating down from NEW YORK STATE.

he could not answer WHY we were seeing more coyotes in 1 or 2 years that we ever saw in out life in woods or our fathers going back to 1900,s.

that has continued from 1990,s to today.

now, a coyote is a common predator to see..

we are also seeing fischers, eagles, hawks in great numbers,predators we never saw in great numbers.

of course, the last 3 are confirmed that they were STOCKED here in pa.

COUGAR/COYOTES has not been CONFIRMED that they were stocked here in pa.
PGCused to say they DO NOT EXIST.now they say coyotes have always been here,or migrated hereand cougars are RElEASED PETS.

at least we are getting them to admitt that,thats step forward,years ago you would have gotten a DENIAL on those 2 ever being in state of pa.

if anyone does see a COUGAR, please get that info to PGC right away and also PM the experts at the cougar command center..
PGC is taking info now thanks to our state reps getting involved.

www.easternpumaresearch.com

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Long story short..........nothing against the good people of WMU 2G and their opinions and sightings but until someone comes up with REAL PROOF rather than second hand anecdotal evidence I don't believe any of them.

Like I said it's been PROVEN here that a frightening number of people cannot tell the difference between a Bobcat and a Mt. Lion on a trail cam picture in the open, in broad daylight........I don't CARE if they've lived there for 100yrs. Show me a body, or a picture that proves it's in PA or your wasting your time trying to convince me.
Someone SAYING they saw one means NOTHING, ZIPPO, NADDA. Sorry.:eek:

I know basically the entire area from Keating to Pottersdale, from the Sinnamhoning to the W. Branch of the Susquehanna. We drive it every year with a fairly large crew for over a week in muzzleloader season WITH SNOW ON THE GROUND. We've seen NOTHING, except a couple bobcats ,deer, some nice elk and black bears and obviously coyotes. I saw one that sat down on a rock 20 yards from me and he was BIG. Easily confused for something else had he been at a distance.

I don't disagree that the predator numbers are up, farmers don't shoot hawks anymore or pole trap them like they did back in the 70's.......that's a little expensive now. Gone are the days of high fur prices for foxes , almost nobody traps like they did 30 years ago when a red would bring $75.
Bobcats populations have always been pretty healthy and coyotes just aren't profitable or easy to hunt. They're dogs and dogs breed like crazy.
Look at the original wolves released around Yellowstone..........look what that small number has become in only 12yrs since release.

Of course animals migrate to and from NY, last I heard they can't read maps and there isn't a 10ft high fence across the border.......just lots of shared forest and farmland.

I love the idea that there could be a population of cougars here, I just don't believe it for a second. SHOW ME A BODY, SHOW ME SOME PROOF. SIGHTINGS ARE NOT PROOF. I don't care if the person lived there their entire lives over generations. People see what they want to see, people believe what they want to believe.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Ah, the cougar debate once again. My added 2 cents...

First off,I don't get the correlation of coyote sightings and the cougars. Yotes have been documented as rising in population all over the Northeast U.S.A. since the 1930's by multipleF& G agencies.

I try and keep an open mind and think maybe, just maybe there where a few eastern cougars that remained, breed, and aremenant populationexists now. Or maybe, just maybe, a few releases resulted in some wild propogation. But these are big maybe's in my mind. I await the real proof of breeding populations before I would ever accept it as fact!

We have a camp in western MA with over 1600 acres behind it Locals swear we have a couger out back. they saw it after all, "many times". I, my two brothers, my father, and two family friends have been all over the cover the past 4 years.But despite hundreds of hours in the woods there, allot of it in snow,not one track or anything. We do have some nice sized yotes, bears, and bobcats though. All of us have seen lion tracks while hunting in Montana. So we have an idea what to look for.

I have been hunting other parts of the Berkshires for over 20 years in areas lions are claimed to have been seen. No tracks. I hunted PA and NH too, never seen any sign,

MY father hunted VT and MA for over 50 years. Never seen tracks.

My two brothers have close to 60 combinedyears of hunting, and hiking MA, never seen any sign. One runs the state search and rescue program with a large group doing searches all over the woods. No lions sighted.

Several friends that have hunted MA and Maine in areas that cougars are claimed..yep. No sign.

My taxidermist is also a hunter and trapper In south VT. Puts on many miles through thefall and winter in the woods. He too has local talesof mtn lionsinthe areas he traps andhunts. Been doing it for 35+ years. No sign on Mtn lions. I asked another old timer trapperwith 50+ years experiencein northern VT...no sighting of lions either, despite the many resports of sightings there too.

My friend grew up in Warren PA. Hunted and fished (still does)the PA wildsnow for almost 30 years. No sign ever, and he's heard all the claims.

I can go on...I ask almost every hunter & trapperI know, some are evenbelievers, but even they admit...never seen one or any sign.

Now I am not saying that the claims are all lies. Some are off course, but many are simple miss-id's by well meaning individualsIMO. the shear fact that none seem to be backed up with biological facts really hurts the case. And when I see bobcats and other animals as posted online asproof, it says allot about these sightings.

A few years back we had a "mountain lion" reported in the town ofWeston, MA, a very populated town on the outskirts of a major city (Lowell, MA). While there are some woods, its not exactly vast wilderness or even a few good sized hills. Its flat,suburban sprawl. The state police put it on the electric signs along the major highways "Warning: Mountain Lion reported" Hundreds of motorists saw these signs, the press picked it up and it was local news. Two days later this "mountain lion" was found to be nothing more than a largeexotictype ofhousecat! :eek:The problem was now it was "fact" in many peoples minds since the state policeand media can't be wrong. (Even though the press reported the housecat days later) So many are now 100%"sure" Weston MA area has mountain lions [:@]

And think about this from a F&G prospective. You get 1,400 Mtn lion sightings annually. Even if one or two are legit...how many times can they rush to the scene only to see bobcat sign?? Off course they brush most of it off. They have other things to do, and running to every claim is costly.

It also makes me wonder how these sightings are so common in PA, NY,MA, NHetc, when in places that have good populations of Mt lions (west US)a sighting is rare. many of these are the same guys that can't see deer??? [&:]

I am sorry, but the vast majoirty of the reports from the Northeast US are simply not real. I can pull up similar stats of aliens and bigfoot sightings...that dosn't make them all real either...they are just claims...

And I actually do hope the eastern cougar persists here in the Northeast. But I will await realproof. Second hand sightings are not enough...

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

i know i saw COUGAR.
the farmer in hyner,pa.that farmed his land all his life knows difference too and his was real close to his home.

now, i cant say they are not released pet as PGC SAYS,can released cougar live in wilds of KELLEY ESTATE IN KEATING MTN?

will a released pet growl at you like one i saw did too me?

yes, i was close and had a witness.i was 15 ft away.

would i see something that close that i never saw before in woods and say it was bobcat.
i had to tell the PGC that the cat was orangeish color and ran like a baboon,they most likely thought i was nuts.
i said it had a head the size of a softball but huge wide shoulders and go-tee and 3 ft tail 1 and 1/2 inchs round twisting behind it.

to my surprise the PGC said,YOU DESCRIBED A COUGAR BUT WE DONT BELIEVE THEY EXIST.
THEY ALSO SAID THAT COLOR IS NOT ORANGEISH ,ITS CALLED TAWNY.
they also said ground was to hard to meet me and take prints..that made me mad..

i cant answer why most if not all sighting are in summer months.

maybe someone can answer that,some will say they dont exist because no tracks in snow..

i had 2 fox in my yard all summer, first snow to now, not 1 fox track is in my yard..

where did they go, come spring, they will be back but no tracks in snow.i cant figure that one also.

i offered reason and was made fun of.
i felt cougar,yes maybe only a few here move out of areas looking for food into areas that have more food in winter,then roam back into other areas,i dont know.

i have not heard of 1 person that saw kittens..
most of sighting from my friendssaid cougar they saw had a long tail.

all sighting were almost all along dirt roads in the wild areas,like keating mtn,hyner,beech creek, rt 144 .

these areas are our most wild areas in clinton/centre/clfd county.

the area where i saw cougar is CLOSE TO QUEHANNA WILD AREA .VERY REMOTE AREA.

i agree that some sighting are bobcats by people that are not in woods a lot but when you have hunters that live in woods and hunted all their lives, i dont buy the idea they did not see COUGAR.

no way a bobcat looks like what i saw and PGC confirmed that i did see cougar but they DONT EXIST.

take care and keep info coming...........

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Sproul,

WHO CARES?!!! LET IT GO.. big deal if you did see a cougar, proly someone released one from a pet and mabey they have been breeding with each other... SO WHAT.. go shoot it then you have your proof. Get out in the woods and quit beating a dead horse!!!!!!!

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Ilive, hunt, and fish up here, and yes, I can tell you they do exist in Maine. I took 3 photos of cougar trackson my cell phone with a dollar bill beside them. I showed them to my co-workers and a few others before deleting them, they could see them really well. It was from a female with a cub last fall archery hunting. They ran across the road in front of myself and a friend on a dirt road about 20 miles from the nearest town. Why didI delete them from my cell phone? Simply put my job depends on woodcutters cutting wood, I enjoy my right to hunt and fish without the good ol gov. telling where I can and cannot hunt. It would change the way of life for to many of us to even think about giving info like this up to them.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

phil, what is interesting,most if not all sighting i have heard were almost all on backwoods dirt state roads.

we found same with coyotes we got.

most of our tracks and sighting were always at 6.30 am to 7 am on dirt roads..

i believethat a COUGAR and many coyotes we have now use the roads as fast way to get back to their den or to cover territory looking for food.

plus many of roads follow WATER here in pa.
game comes to water for drink in mornings.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

the last thing i want to see anyone do is shoot such a wonderful animal.
i think its great they are here,or 1 is here or 2 is here.
its bringing it tourist too and that is great for towns that are struggling..

i was up at hyner view during the hang gliding .

you would not believe the people that heard storys of cougars and elk being in clinton county..

they could not wait to ride the dirt roads with their digital cameras and kids along..

so, there is positive things by having cougars and elk ,it brings in tourists and small towns benefit from it.

no, sproul would never want to see one killed,i think they are exciting to have in pa.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Sroul,
your silly forum is getting old. what are you trying to prove??? when you have some proof then stop back at this forum and post it.. people like me still won't care

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Wow only 8 pages in a week? I thouht it would be in the mid teens by now. Must be people are getting tired of the garbage about mountain lions.

Sounds like a good place for a trail cam. I can't wait to see the pics.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Hey, check this link for a documented cougar attack on on of our own members here!

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2666314&mpage=1&key=&#266634 7

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Now we're getting somewhere....could it be we have all mistaken the true thread of the subject??
Maybe some if not all of these related posts have secretly been in code, and we're only now beginning to discover the jist of it all...??? That link has shed some serious light on veiled bar scenes that we only have up to this point surmised to be happening?? The old fox!!!

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

OK...but I till say 99.9% of these sightings are bogus. I love the stories...but still no proof...

All respect due phil...I still don't understand why you would delete them. Is the Gov going to confiscate your phone??

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

I think you're on to something there Pawildman! Our resident cougar expert has let it leak out that he frequents the type of habitat that the cougars described in that link seem to prefer.

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Perhaps we should get out our shotglasses...ooops!!...I mean spyglasses and wait for some more cryptic clues...???

RE: COUGARS ARE HERE
 

Yep I have been there! they sure do change when you get them outside.