RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

I agree completely. Another part of the problem is that state forests are "suppose" to make money on timber sales for all citizens of PA. It would be nice if they were to create habitat, and they do do wildlife enhancement projects on a small scale, but I don't see their mission changing so drastically as to make that a prime concern.
Gypsy moth infestation, wind damage or fires would all have side benefits to that end, but are nearly always on a small scale also.

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

we all agree that trees are shading ground,not deer eating it, its the shade..

next, why dont the DCNR controll burn under those trees, that would help and cut some of shade out like you would do in your yard to let sun in..

DCNR for years was totally against any burning, they said it kills the bugs and lizards,this is true, i was told that at public meeting...

lets talk facts,DCNR IS controlling forests..DEER are not anything they want, its not a priority and never will be...

when the dcnr sells lumber,almost all oaks are cut that can be used..

this takes away food for deer,acorns..
why dont they leave a few oak trees for deer, its not a priority and never will be..

is every tree in woods worth money?
i bet not and they could be cut down ,this would let in sun..

if sun cant reach floor,nothing will grow..burning would help even if shade was there,it would help...

from what i understand our trees are not big enough to be cut yet in great numbers..so, if that true, i cant see things getting better on growing...

dcnr in my opinion is not concerened with HEALTH of deer, its not their MISSION,their mission is to make money from lumber and gas/oil rights..
i dont blame them, heck if i was working there, i would be walking the talk too..

USP is trying to stop the doe slaughter we have had here in pa. for last 6 to 10 years..
dcnr/pgc in my opinion went way to far in WMU2G..

this year is biggest acorn harvest i have seen in years, last year was good too...its sad all that feed will go to waste again this year..

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

My opinion on it,sure the dcnr makes money off timber but the main reason that forest land was put aside for security and recreation.I would like to see a more agressive approach to habitat improvement for all critters in these areas that have been shaded.If that means taking out some pole timber to improve things then so be it.I think the responsibility lies beyond timber into management for all critters.I say all critters because good habitat affects more then just deer.I don't think timber dollars should be the primary goal,that's not what the state forest system was set aside for.

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

i was watching our DEER meeting at dubois,pa on tv.
head of 1 of the sportsman clubs who was a former DCNR employee was talking to state reps about deer situation.
he was doing good UNTIL he made a statement which he said,hey, there is money in trees and he smiled at the state reps..
well, 1 of the reps came back and said, we are here for deer not to get money on growing trees.
that guys face turned red on tv,he told it just like a dcnr person would..

he thought that the reps would pee themselves over money there is growing trees.
he made a big mistake on that comment but showed the thinking even in sportsmen clubs..
people are easy to buy off today,they change with wind,just offer a POSITION and they will walk the talk..

your right, woods is for other things,us deer hunters had it nice for longtime, now its ending..
its going to be hiking, bug watching,atv riders,bird watchers,canoeing,elk watching,snowmobiling..
deer hunting will be something that is not of major interest..

if dcnr cared about deer WHY DID THEY GET THE RULE IMPLEMENTED YOU CANT FEED DEER ON STATEFORESTLAND UNLESS IN A DESIGNATED FEEDER WHICH THEY ONLY ALLOW A CERTAIN FEW..

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

most of money will go for JOBS not for habitat,you can bet that.

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

Does anyone think that the members of USP or their followers themselves refrain from shooting does? My bet is that they shoot all they can, in secret if need be. I think they just want to have the deer for themselves (select group).
Probably of the common mindset that complains about deer numbers, all the while harvesting as many as they can. "Ill get mine while I can, before they're all gone" is a common comment.
Does anyone else see the hipocrasy of such a mindset?

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

my dad and me are USP members, we have not killed doe in 10 years..
but you are right, that comment is what i think most use to kill a doe.
its if i dont shoot that doe or fawn, someone else will.......

sad,isnt it that it has come to that..these are same people who try to chase you out of your hunting areas..

i dont want deer for myself, i want to see deer not wiped out in my hunting area and told by the PGC/DCNR that you HAVE TO GO WHERE DEER ARE.

i dont want to leave my area, i want deer and habitat improvedin my area with controlled burns, harvest trees,plant food plots..
i am willing to pay more to see this happen but i want my money going for DEER not more jobs with clipboards and trucks that get 10 miles per gallon with 1 person in them....

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

I don't personally know any usp members but others I know who complain about deer numbers still intend to shoot doe.Doesn't make sense to me but we wiped the buffalo out before and I dang near guarentee ya if it was possible we'd wipe the deer out too.If the last deer was left in PA there would be a half million hunters trying to kill it.That's just the way it is.

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

our Elk hunts prove your opinion.

RE: PA News - USP Files Permanent Injunction against PGC
 

Ok Sproulman, apparently you think DCNR should focus on providing deer for you even if it means eliminating ground nesting birds, (including turkey and grouse), and no matter how it affects the other 466 species of wildlife.
You simply do not show that you have even a basic concept that all wildlife depends on each other having healthy habitat.
Everything you suggested requires huge amounts of money in order to have any affect on any size scale.
Do you really think taxpayers should pay for that so you can go to your same hunting spot and not have to make an effort to “hunt” for a better hunting situation?
Every hunter since time begun has had to adjust to changing conditions. The very meaning of the word indicates that. You may be willing to pay more for that but it is not a Game Commission thing where you simply pay more for a hutning license..

Don’t tell me that USP is trying to stop doe killing and expect me to believe it. They support the 2 house bills that would allow hunting over bait, they support an anti-law enforcement bill that would strip the PGC of apprehending poachers, and how you and your father handle doe hunting is “not” the way that all of USP members do.
I know of one such “influential” member who, for the last two seasons, has bragged about how many does his family took. I also know that Jim Slinsky told me in a phone conversation about his killing 5 or 6 does in South Carolina. Do you really think that when he gets to hunt in PA he does it different?

Germain is correct, the DCNR entails several departments. Forestry is only one and state parks is another. Their mission is multi-faceted and tourism, timber, hunting and other recreation go hand-in-hand. I suggest anyone who is not up to date on the particulars, go to their website and research some of the things they “have” done on behalf of those concerns. It really is a very informative website.

We need to remember that when we speak of DCNR we are not speaking of a hunting or game management agency that is financed with hunter’s dollars. DCNR is financed by taxpayers and is mandated by legislative control.
If we hunters, as only 8 – 9% of taxpayers start making selfish demands that put all other goals aside, just for hunting, we will certainly risk a backlash from the other 91 -92% who pay the bills.

I sincerely believe that USP is taking followers in the direction of dismantling the PGC and turning game management over to DCNR. USP has supported several legislative issues that go exactly in that direction. (HB 550 for one)
Should that happen, you better keep a good journal of your hunting experiences in these times, because it will never again be the same.
“ALL” studies point to an increase in bird watching, hiking and camping that far outnumbers the ranks of hunting. Follow the money to see where a tax-based management agency would take us.

Sproulman, I would urge you and your father to really, really, look in to some of the things USP is promoting and look for the devil in the details.