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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Maybe we could call in Mythbusters;)
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
That first picture of the doe with one leg looks like a Florida deer. Very small body size. Is that supposed to be a Pa deer? And I agree that I see alot of deer that look like the second picture especially in early spring.
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
 Yea MythBusters - you got there # |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
When did they start the deer herd reduction? There have been countless attempts to get the deer herd in balance with the habitat since then but every time herd reduction has got on the right track that yammering started again. The most recent herd reduction attempt for this area started in 2000. And if that many was to weak to give birth and you knew that winter took a toll on the deer in them 2 seasons why did the PGC still gave out those large numbers of doe tags? So your answer to not having enough food to support the existing deer numbers is to harvest fewer deer and keep more through the winter to exist on less food per deer? Unreal!!!!!! That has been the very problem that leads to the deer population collapse in the first place. And how do you know them deer died at the lastfew weeks of winter. And shouldn't this been documented along with pictures. How is anything to be done properly or changed to correctif events like thiese are not documented. On a large scale you speak of, it should of been documented. Any specialist in a field would document these things. True? It was documented. It was documented and recorded when I walked the same wintering grounds drainages for the exact same distances that I had been walking during the previous years at the end of the winter snows. I know those deer were dead because I looked at them and broke the femur bone, when I could find it, to determine if that deer died of malnutrition or not. Here are the results of my finding per year along the same 4.7 mile stretch of three separate wintering grounds drainages. I just pulled my copies of those reports out of my file cabinet. Year………………dead deer 1997………………..1 1998………………..0 1999………………..1 2000………………..1 2001………………..2 2002………………..1 2003………………..3 2004……………….10 2005……………….4 The simple fact is that we had mild winters through the 1990’s that allowed the deer herd to grow beyond what nature would normally have allowed. People got spoiled expecting those favorable deer recruitment conditions to last forever but that all ended with three consecutive years of no mast crop combined with harsh winters. Protecting more deer just means the scavengers have more food cleaning up the dead or weakened deer throughout and following a harsh winter. The only way to have more deer for the long term into the future to balance the deer herd with the habitat until the habitat recovers enough to support more deer. You have to have the habitat (that means food) before you can have more of any species. That is one of nature’s laws, not mans and man can’t change that no matter how much he wants too. How did they elk do up there? I would think worse because they eat more than the deer? There are a lot of major differences between elk and deer and their feeding preferences, which is how they can live on the same range without adversely affecting the food supply for the other. R.S. Bodenhorn |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
RSB, you are to be commended for your infinite patience in explaining that which should not need any explanation. You obviously make your job much more than law enforcement. There aren't enough out there like you.
you are a credit to your profession, even if you didnt want us to hunt that last 1/2 hour;) |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Year………………dead deer
1997………………..1 1998………………..0 1999………………..1 2000………………..1 2001………………..2 2002………………..1 2003………………..3 2004……………….10 2005……………….4 These numbers seem to be reversed from what you think they would be. More deer higher number of deaths. But as the herd declines the number increases. Could it be that the larger number of deers made it easier for the rest of the deer and weaker ones to travel and forage for food? The stronger ones pack the trail down for the others to follow. Deer use to yard up in groups of 20+ in bad weather now lower that to3 to 5deer and their chance of survival has gone done. Could this be the cause of more deaths? There are a lot of major differences between elk and deer and their feeding preferences, which is how they can live on the same range without adversely affecting the food supply for the other. :eek: |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
RSB,did you do this survey after the 93-94 winters?Back to back bad ones as I remember.
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter RSB, you are to be commended for your infinite patience in explaining that which should not need any explanation. You obviously make your job much more than law enforcement. There aren't enough out there like you. you are a credit to your profession, even if you didnt want us to hunt that last 1/2 hour;) |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter Ihave seen deer that looked pretty close to that in the ANF and on the game lands near East Branch Dam along the Shawmut RR Grade. i will grant you that it has been at least 15 years ago though. I havent been in that area for that long but I have seen some pretty skinny and small deer in the ANF more recently but thats been more than 5-6 years ago. Sproul, where can we find those pictures? Do they really exist? then you ask me if they exist, nothing like be a little TRUSTING.. like i said, i am no FIBBER.. the picture was taken by AP..and no rib showing on those deer,big turkey ,i mean big turkey playing with a few big doe.. the picture was in THE EXPRESS,feb10/11 th paper, lock haven, pa.page A3.www.lockhaven.com ....phone 1-800-941-3231...fax 570-748-1544..  |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Deer kill planned for western Pa. government campus 02-02-2007 By DAN NEPHIN Associated Press Writer PITTSBURGH (AP) A federal agency will kill about 200 deer at a government campus that the Pennsylvania Game Commission said is overpopulated with starving and diseased deer a situation partially brought about by post-9/11 security measures. Agents from the United States Department of Agriculture will shoot the deer within the next few weeks, said Harris Glass, state director of the USDA's wildlife services in Pennsylvania. The 237-acre site about 12 miles south of Pittsburgh houses the Department of Energy's National Energy Technology Laboratory and offices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Mine Safety and Health Administration. Before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, gaps in the facility's fencing had allowed the animals to move in and out, said Samara Trusso, a wildlife management supervisor for the Game Commission. But repairs afterward reduced deer movement and their population increased far above the recommended densities by Game Commission officials. ``We never had this problem occur prior to this century,'' Bob Reuther, a Department of Energy spokesman, said Friday. The department had about 50 to 60 deer killed at a 140-acre facility in Morgantown, W.Va., last year for the same reason, he said. Two surveys found about 200 deer at the Pennsylvania campus, Trusso said. Only about 65 acres on the campus are suitable for deer enough to support two to four healthy deer but even that habitat has degraded, she said. Glass and Trusso said the deer are starved and diseased, but keep breeding. ``Basically, they've asked us to remove everything,'' Glass said. ``You look at the deer and you'll understand.'' Employees have been feeding the deer either for enjoyment or because they recognize the animals are unhealthy, which added to the problems, Trusso said Friday. The Game Commission discourages people from feeding wildlife. Doing so can concentrate animals, making it possible for disease to spread more easily. ``In the short time, it absolutely can keep the deer just healthy enough to continue to breed at their regular levels,'' exacerbating the overpopulation problem, she said. People often feed wildlife inappropriate food, leading to malnourishment, she said. ``If you and I eat popcorn every day, eventually, we would start to show signs of malnourishment,'' she said. Feeding corn, a popular item, is particularly bad because deer, like cows, are ruminants, and have stomachs with multiple chambers for digestion, she said. Microbes inside aid digestion, but too much corn can kill the microbes, she said. Game Commission staff found the carcass of one deer that died of starvation, but had a stomach full of corn, she said. Typically, Glass said, a team consisting of a sharpshooter, a driver and a person using night vision and heat-detecting equipment will humanely euthanize the deer at night, when few people are around. Only trained USDA employees are used, he said. Hunters could not be used because of security concerns. ``It needs to be a very controlled situation,'' Glass said. ``It's not hunting. It's a tool.'' |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
 STARVED AND DISEASED BUT STILL BREEDING,hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,thats good one, i never knew that starving deer had all those FAWNS.. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
They keep breeding in Africa too. Must not be any starving there either. :eek:
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
These numbers seem to be reversed from what you think they would be |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: Buckshot These numbers seem to be reversed from what you think they would be But, before I get into that a will try to clear George’s thoughts that the deer mortality was backwards do to having more mortality with fewer deer. It might seem that way until you realize that the mortality is connected to the winter conditions. Back when we had more deer we were having a run on mild winters combined with good fall mast conditions. That allowed the deer herds to go through the winters in better condition and have higher fawn survival rates. That in turn allowed the deer populations to build to the maximum number that could be sustained with ideal conditions. Even after we started reducing the deer numbers the habitat in many areas didn’t have enough time to recover before we got hit with those hard winters of 2002/2003 and 2003/2004. 2001………………..2 2002………………..1 2003………………..3 2004……………….10 2005..........................4 As you will the winter deer mortality in my district was higher then previous year in the spring of 2003 but still not excessive. That is pretty typical of one year of harsh winter conditions. The deer move into the wintering grounds in early 2003, which hadn’t been used much in recent years due to the mild winters. The deer hit those wintering grounds pretty hard but the winter opened up before we had a lot of mortality. What did happen though is the bred does lost so much weight through the long winter they couldn’t build their bodies back up to weight and get enough nutrition to the fawn the were carrying for those fawns to be up to the correct weight before they were born. That then meant we had few fawns in the population that fall. That is what made the first difference in the number of deer hunters were seeing in the fall of 2003. Then in the 2003/2004 winter we had another long hard winter with even more snow and for a longer period then the year before. This time though when the deer pulled down into the wintering grounds the habitat in those areas was still in poor condition yet from the damage the deer had done to it the winter before. During that year the deer really suffered and as you can see when you look at the mortality numbers there was a lot more mortality following the 2004 winter. Of course that also meant a lot fewer surviving fawns again in the spring and summer of 2004. Once again hunters saw another decline in deer numbers since we then had two years in a row when the fawn recruitment was lower then the natural mortality of the deer herd let alone what were harvested by hunters. Then in 2005 we still didn’t have a mast crop and though the winter wasn’t as long or harsh the habitat still hadn’t recovered from the years of being over browsed. The recruitment was somewhat improved the next spring but we were into the compounding factor by then of having fewer deer to reproduce due to the fact that the does that should have been producing fawns didn’t exist because they had died within a couple of days of being born back in the spring of 2003. We still haven’t totally recovered from those harsh winters though we are making headway. More importantly though is the fact that the habitat has had an opportunity to see some recovery the past couple of years and that is going to allow the deer herd to increase a bit higher then it had been before. The key then will be to protect that habitat recovery instead of the deer or we will just see the deer herds crash again the next time we have a couple of harsh winters. When I get the time I will post the research data results on fawn survival rates based on the amount of nutritious food available to the does in the winter and spring. Perhaps that will help some of you better understand how deer herd reduce their own numbers, even without hunting harvests, following a harsh winter. R.S.Bodenhorn |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
why dont you just give him a big kiss,i had people that commented at work like that and they always went up ladder..jeez You can call me a lot of things but a suck up is not one of them. My advice for you, let go of the past, get yourself unstuck from the 60's and 70's and bring yourself into this century when it comes todeer management and your favorite pastime. Your favorite stomping grounds have changed and not for the better. You need to adapt. I'm sure your heart is genuinely in this thing but you need to catch up with the world. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
The reason for that and what both you and George seem to be missing is how the winter actually affects the deer population. The reduction in the next fall deer sightings usually isn’t a result of the deer that died through the winter as much as it is from the reduction in the fawn survival rates following a hard winter. Then in 2005 we still didn’t have a mast crop and though the winter wasn’t as long or harsh the habitat still hadn’t recovered from the years of being over browsed. The recruitment was somewhat improved the next spring but we were into the compounding factor by then of having fewer deer to reproduce due to the fact that the does that should have been producing fawns didn’t exist because they had died within a couple of days of being born back in the spring of 2003 I dont think hunters have near the impact they think they do. Ive been hunting south of wheeling WV for the past 11 years, we have roughly 60 dpsm, but the hunters hunt the same way year after year, they climb into their treestand at dawn and climb out at dark, the deer know this, and after the first day tend to lay up in small, hard to reach gullys and hollows. With all the deer down there the most Ive ever seen in one day is 12.After all the local hunters leave, I usually still hunt, when done correctly this is by far the best way to shoot a good buck down there. Now in PA it seems the hunters for the most part hunt just like their WV counter part, still hunting has become a lost art, and if they cant shoot a deer from a stand they arnt going to shoot one. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: sproulman ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter Ihave seen deer that looked pretty close to that in the ANF and on the game lands near East Branch Dam along the Shawmut RR Grade. i will grant you that it has been at least 15 years ago though. I havent been in that area for that long but I have seen some pretty skinny and small deer in the ANF more recently but thats been more than 5-6 years ago. Sproul, where can we find those pictures? Do they really exist? then you ask me if they exist, nothing like be a little TRUSTING.. like i said, i am no FIBBER.. the picture was taken by AP..and no rib showing on those deer,big turkey ,i mean big turkey playing with a few big doe.. the picture was in THE EXPRESS,feb10/11 th paper, lock haven, pa.page A3.www.lockhaven.com ....phone 1-800-941-3231...fax 570-748-1544..
No Sproul, you are not a fibber! You aremistaken about the photo though. It's an APfile photo of a whitetail deer. Where it was taken, nobody knows. What you saw was indeed a healthy whitetail deer not a starving deer from that compound. And I didnt even need to call Mythbusters;) |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
buckshot, liked your comments other than 1..deer in 2003 did not die from starving etc..its DOE TAGS and multiple kills..its hunters shooting fawns,its no fawns do to yotes,now PENN STATE SAYS bears..
yotes are doing number on fawns, i see it,hunters and lack of deer are causing rest.. i really think that bucks that are left are not getting caught up with doe that are left to mate..i seen 1 buck going 3 miles this year after doe that were left,3 miles, i never saw that before.. and guess what doe were doing?RUNNING FROM THE HUGE 8 POINT BUCK,sadly, i ended his great adventure.. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
sproulman I agree with you . But what season was it you ended the 8 point,s life archery, rifle, cause next someone,s gonna tell you the rut was way late this year for that buck to go that far for some tang:D
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
S-Man, the fawn mortality studies aren't new. I don't know exactly when it was confirmed, (through "proving it" forensically),that bears take a significant amount of fawns, but I do know it's been several years now that it was published.
Yotes -- of course they are predators also. But they are way more efficient when habitat is poor. Again, "actual studies" show that when there is good shrub layer and healthy habitat, deer are less susceptible to predation than when habitat is stressed and open. I Haven't quite figured out what your are saying about a buck going 3 miles after a doe??? Did you not know that bucks travel for miles during the rut? That is common. They breed one doe and off they go looking for another. During the rut I see bucks here that I've never seen before. Maybe I'm not understanding what point you are trying to make, but again, radio collar studies long, long ago, have proven how bucks roam long distances. I 'm also trying to figure out what the significance of a doe running from that buck is???? Does run when they are not yet ready, but bucks will and do, chase regardless. Bucks can sense (flehming - sp?) when a doe is "approaching" estrus. They will stick right on their tail until the magic happens, but does don't allow them to "do it for fun." They only stand for them when it counts. Geez, this birds and bees stuff is something you shouldv'e already known. :eek:Just kidding -- couldn't resist that. Hey, just curious, how did you watch a buck go three miles? And "when" did you see this happening? |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: 3 gobblers sproulman I agree with you . But what season was it you ended the 8 point,s life archery, rifle, cause next someone,s gonna tell you the rut was way late this year for that buck to go that far for some tang:D i saw this buck before bear season in archery,he was all over place.. 3 gobblers, i never saw that in 50 years of hunting the buck,usually buck stayed in about a 1 mile area..archery friends i talk to at club said they could never pattern a buck here in wmu2g this year..they would set up and find buck 3 days later 1 mile away.. i also noticed the scraps made were from same buck i got and i dont think he returned to scraps after he made them from what i saw..i think he was looking for doe in heat and could not catch up to one do to lack of doe.. everytime i saw this buck in archery, the doe that he was after was always trying to get away from him,doe running full speed to get away.. archery is extremely hard now to pattern a buck as ,i think, they are not staying home anymore do to lack of doe.. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
northpa, bucks here in wmu2g NEVER left area ,say 1 mile when we had lots of doe..maybe that helps..
NOW, do to lack of doe, they are NORMALLY going 3 miles..they are also making scraps for 3 miles,not 1 mile they used too.. as for studys,well, you just got a study from ole sproul.. as for seeing buck, i am in woods A LOT.. hunt same area,50 years..have retired friends, we have coffee ,sit and watch football, compare info, we trap , i stopped,in woods all time.. we all hunt same areas we have for longtime..we know what is there.. sorry i got off topic again.. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Sproulman, everything you say about one mile has been long ago disproven. Those studies were done in the "hay days" of lots of doe. It simply is an old wives tale.
There is absolutely no way you could have known, in the past,if a buck left an area and traveled three miles, eveytime he may have done that. Especially so since deer travel more after dark than in daylight. To go that far is about 45 minutes effort for a deer. And if he is on the scent of an estrus doe, you might as well figure a lot less than 45 minutes. On the gun season opener that is well past the peak of the rut when most does have already been bred. If a doe or doe fawn is in heat (which some are) at that time, she is a rare commodity and she is very popular since most of the action is over. Yup a buck would walk three miles for her. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
OFF Topic
Topic is Starving Deer |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
GOOD !!!!!! That way there's no need for them to be employed !! Shut the entire agancy down...get rid of everyone...after all what are they going to do now that they have eliminated their own need .......what a freekin' joke !!
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
I'm guessing you are the "newb" george.
But, I'll go along with your club scenario anyway. True, if a buck is overloaded with opportunities, he has no need to travel for more. That situation happens in an out-of-balance herd structure and pertains only to rut activity. In a natural herd structure bucks will be more evenly matched in numbers with does. Thus more competition and more travel. By doing so the genetics are spread around over a wider area by the most dominant bucks. Notice I didn't say "superior" and also note that I don't think genetics is something we hunters can control. But nature designs things that way in spite of mans influence. Sproulman's reference was to opening dayof gun season. That is a time we should expect most does are already bred and, apparently, the buck he mentioned had located a doe that was near to coming in heat. There's not one thing unusual about what he described, in my book. Aside from the rut, bucks commonly travel 2 -7 or more miles. You can dispute it, but it is foolish to do so, when radio collars absolultey prove this true. And yes, they also prove it true during rut times and even when we had a lot of does. (see below) To think that, even with large numbers of does, they will come into heat in stages where a buck simply has to finish one and another in the immediate area, will be perfectly timed to be ready and waiting for him is --- well, kind of like saying the gals at your club will take a rain check until you get back to them. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Yeah Sproul I'm betting "your" methods are far superior than FLIR and teams of on-site professionals.
You betcha! |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: NorthPA I'm guessing you are the "newb" george. But, I'll go along with your club scenario anyway. True, if a buck is overloaded with opportunities, he has no need to travel for more. That situation happens in an out-of-balance herd structure and pertains only to rut activity. In a natural herd structure bucks will be more evenly matched in numbers with does. Thus more competition and more travel. By doing so the genetics are spread around over a wider area by the most dominant bucks. Notice I didn't say "superior" and also note that I don't think genetics is something we hunters can control. But nature designs things that way in spite of mans influence. Sproulman's reference was to opening dayof gun season. That is a time we should expect most does are already bred and, apparently, the buck he mentioned had located a doe that was near to coming in heat. There's not one thing unusual about what he described, in my book. Aside from the rut, bucks commonly travel 2 -7 or more miles. You can dispute it, but it is foolish to do so, when radio collars absolultey prove this true. And yes, they also prove it true during rut times and even when we had a lot of does. (see below) To think that, even with large numbers of does, they will come into heat in stages where a buck simply has to finish one and another in the immediate area, will be perfectly timed to be ready and waiting for him is --- well, kind of like saying the gals at your club will take a rain check until you get back to them. 25+years in the outdoors, Not a newB at all. But very keen on detail and statements made from the past. Kinda cotradicts what you and the PGC has been saying? It wasn't about the AR program for the deer reduction but for their survival of all deer.So the herd reduction is all about the AR program after all as you are stating above. It's to make the larger bucks roam to spread out their genes instead of in one area. Less does sure would make this happen, Now wouldn't it? In a natural herd structure bucks will be more evenly matched in numbers with does. Thus more competition and more travel. By doing so the genetics are spread around over a wider area by the most dominant bucks. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Hell25 years ---- is not even up to "newb" status. That is pre-school.
Nope ya just don't get it. There is no contradiction at all. Although you weren't even very clear on saying "how" it contradicted. Let's see if we can clear this up in a simple way. First, you conveniently left out that part about nature designing things that way and us not being able to control genetics. Your sentence makes no sense: It wasn't about the AR program for the deer reduction but for their survival of all deer. If you still don't understand, herd reduction -- it is simple. It is to reduce stress on habitat and through doing that, many other side benefits are realized. Deer become healthier, since they now have better food sources and more of them. Healthier deer grow bigger and produce better. Fewer does means a more natural sex ratio. A natural sex ratio means more natural breeding and helps reduce stress on bucks. Hopefully these things are taking place while habitat is recovering and serving some of the other 466 species of wildlife and also setting the stage simply for better conditions all around. It's to make the larger bucks roam to spread out their genes instead of in one area. "Larger" does not necessarily mean "genetically better." Note my mention of that above, in the post you misquoted. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: NorthPA Hell25 years ---- is not even up to "newb" status. That is pre-school. Nope ya just don't get it. There is no contradiction at all. Although you weren't even very clear on saying "how" it contradicted. Let's see if we can clear this up in a simple way. First, you conveniently left out that part about nature designing things that way and us not being able to control genetics. Your sentence makes no sense: It wasn't about the AR program for the deer reduction but for their survival of all deer. If you still don't understand, herd reduction -- it is simple. It is to reduce stress on habitat and through doing that, many other side benefits are realized. Deer become healthier, since they now have better food sources and more of them. Healthier deer grow bigger and produce better. Fewer does means a more natural sex ratio. A natural sex ratio means more natural breeding and helps reduce stress on bucks. Hopefully these things are taking place while habitat is recovering and serving some of the other 466 species of wildlife and also setting the stage simply for better conditions all around. It's to make the larger bucks roam to spread out their genes instead of in one area. "Larger" does not necessarily mean "genetically better." Note my mention of that above, in the post you misquoted. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Did ya get it or do ya need more splainin there Grasshopper?
:eek: |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
hope you got to red article and pictures of the deer that the pgc says .are starving and must go.. this is at the federal gov. campus in broughton,pa. near pittsburgh.. pgc says there are 200 deer on this private property and they must be SHOT!! IF you would look at pictures of deer, they have nice healthy coats and fat sassy bellys.. Matter of fact where is the article about these starving deer and what the PGC stated. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Ya mean you haven't inhaled the imagination ffantasy fumes coming off these threads yet AJ?
Click your heels, claspe your hands, gaze upon a star and make a wish. It works for others. :eek: |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Lets see where this is going to go AJ. I know your tempted to hit that button. :DI'd still like to see the article too. I wasn't able to find it on the link sent to me in a PM Sproul are you sure that was the right addy?
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
No - I am not going to "whack it" as long as it gets On Topic.
Read the opening topic statement.Look where this has gone. Back to the same old rant from the same whiners that hi-jack most of these other wise good topics. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
To obtain data on deer health, Wildlife Conservation Officers examined female deer killed by various causes from 1 February through 31 May 2005. They recorded location (county, township, and WMU), date killed, cause of death, and number and sex of embryos for each doe on a form attached to a deer jaw envelope. They measured embryos so that we could determine conception and projected birth dates and removed 1 side of the lower jaw from each deer for age determination. Jaws were forwarded to Region Wildlife Management Supervisors, who along with the Deer Management Section, made the age assignments in July 2005. Personnel in the Bureau of Automated Technology Services (BATS) processed the reproductive data and provided summary reports for the state and each WMU. Based on results from published studies (Cheatum and Severinghaus 1950, Verme 1965, Verme 1967, Verme 1969, Hesselton and Sauer 1973, Hesselton and Jackson 1974, McCullough 1979, Stoll and Parker 1986, Folk and Klinstra 1991, Osborne et al 1992, Taylor 1996, Swihart et al 1998), we defined good, satisfactory, and poor deer health as follows. For 3-year-old and older females, at least 1.7 embryos per doe was considered good, less than 1.5 embryos per doe was considered poor. For 2-year-old females, at least 1.5 embryos per doe was considered good and less than 1.1 embryos was considered poor. For 1-year-old females, if at least 30% were pregnant, deer health was considered good. If 10% or fewer were pregnant, deer health was considered poor. For all values, satisfactory falls between cutoffs for good and poor. Due to uncertainty associated with sampling and use of generalized cutoffs based on published results, we did not expect complete agreement in reproductive assessments across age classes within a WMU. As a result, we considered reproductive measures of 3-year-old and older females as most important in assessing WMU level deer health, because this age class produces the greatest number of offspring and has the greatest effect on the population. Pregnancy rates of 1-year-old females followed 3-year-old and older embryo counts in importance because female fawn breeding stops at high population sizes (McCullough 1979). In New York, Hesselton and Jackson (1974) demonstrated that female fawns, or 1-year-old females, are most sensitive to range conditions. |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
You keep this up and they'll be transferring you to the Deer Management Team over there.
:) |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Yes - here we are - Oh My - I see it now - Yes - the Yellow Brick Road the Land of OZ.
BTW - Neville good info/data:) |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: Neville To obtain data on deer health, Wildlife Conservation Officers examined female deer killed by various causes from 1 February through 31 May 2005. They recorded location (county, township, and WMU), date killed, cause of death, and number and sex of embryos for each doe on a form attached to a deer jaw envelope. They measured embryos so that we could determine conception and projected birth dates and removed 1 side of the lower jaw from each deer for age determination. Jaws were forwarded to Region Wildlife Management Supervisors, who along with the Deer Management Section, made the age assignments in July 2005. Personnel in the Bureau of Automated Technology Services (BATS) processed the reproductive data and provided summary reports for the state and each WMU. Based on results from published studies (Cheatum and Severinghaus 1950, Verme 1965, Verme 1967, Verme 1969, Hesselton and Sauer 1973, Hesselton and Jackson 1974, McCullough 1979, Stoll and Parker 1986, Folk and Klinstra 1991, Osborne et al 1992, Taylor 1996, Swihart et al 1998), we defined good, satisfactory, and poor deer health as follows. For 3-year-old and older females, at least 1.7 embryos per doe was considered good, less than 1.5 embryos per doe was considered poor. For 2-year-old females, at least 1.5 embryos per doe was considered good and less than 1.1 embryos was considered poor. For 1-year-old females, if at least 30% were pregnant, deer health was considered good. If 10% or fewer were pregnant, deer health was considered poor. For all values, satisfactory falls between cutoffs for good and poor. Due to uncertainty associated with sampling and use of generalized cutoffs based on published results, we did not expect complete agreement in reproductive assessments across age classes within a WMU. As a result, we considered reproductive measures of 3-year-old and older females as most important in assessing WMU level deer health, because this age class produces the greatest number of offspring and has the greatest effect on the population. Pregnancy rates of 1-year-old females followed 3-year-old and older embryo counts in importance because female fawn breeding stops at high population sizes (McCullough 1979). In New York, Hesselton and Jackson (1974) demonstrated that female fawns, or 1-year-old females, are most sensitive to range conditions. So this means we should see a signicant drop in doe tags this season because the drop of fawns would be lousy from the weather? Or will it remain the same high numbers as allways? |
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
George,that's the whole point.Deer shouldn't have to dig for food.They're browsers andthey'll do fine if there's adequate high quality browse.If there isn't enough browse and deer are starving,they've exceeded the carrying capacity and more need to be shot.Why don't people get that?We can't manage deer based on mild winters and good mast crops.Deer need freakin browse and we lack that in many areas do to decades of too dam many deer.
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