How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Just curious as to how long the deer can put up with this severe cold we are having in the Northeast? I know years ago officials used to find hundreds of deer in deer yards that died due to the weather or lack of food caused by it. Anyone know?

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

It has always been accepted as fact in my circles that cold does not affect whitetails. Only deep snow or ice and/or crusted deep snow adversely affects them. As long as they can stay mobile and feed easily, no temperature lows known to man will impact them. Food is their only concern. As long as they can get to it, they are good. Let's hope that the snow we have doesn't melt and then refreeze as ice, or that we get a deep accumulation. In extended durations of cold, any snow we get stays, so deep accumulations can result.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I know how long I could last in these temps.:D
They'll hit the thermal covers and try not to expend alot of energy in the deep snow.I always get the year mixed up but somewhere back about the mid 70's I think the NC had deep snow and then an ice storm on top of it.That year alot of deer broke their necks just from sliding down ridges.You couldn't break through the stuff.Then in the winter of 93 we kept hearing rumors of deer and turkey freezing solid standing in place.So we finally got up to see what all the hub bub was about.We took a long walk through 30 plus inches of snow and didn't cut a track.We eventually went to an area where cutting was done in the late fall and the tops were left.Bingo!Deer were everywhere hanging out in that one spot by the tops and thermal cover nearby.That was in 93.Today under those circumstances you might see two deer.:D

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

That was in 93.Today under those circumstances you might see two deer.:D


There's one in every crowd :)

Might've been '93, forget now, but it was one of those winters when rumors were flying about turkeys frozen to tree limbs and hollows "full" of dead deer. Called my cousin that lives across the valley from my camp and in the course of the conversation, I asked if he'd heard any ofthat stuff. Said there was local talk, since temps had been low for some time and there was alsoa heavy snow cover. He said he hadn't seen a deer or turkey in weeks and was beginning to believe the stories.

Couple weeks later he called me about something and I eventually remembered to ask if he'd found any dead turkeys or deer yet. He laughed, said no, but he'd found lots of live ones. Not long after we'd talked, he stopped to visit another farmer up the valley and mentioned the cold weather and wildlife. That farmer told him to come back in early morning or at dusk and he could see critters on the NW side of the valley, coming out of the dense pines to the spring seep.

Couldn't see them from the road, so people driving about hadn't seen deer and turkeys. But that farmer's house was high enough up the hillso's he could see them almost every day. Another mystery solved.

I've been in part of that thick pine"plantation" (about 80 acres in three pieces) and it's thick enough that I doubt snow depths inside of it ever got close to what was out in the fields. There are also many smallopen areas in there where pines died and green briers, apple trees and other bits of vegetation may have provided some seeds and browse for both species to get some food? Then there was also some greenery along the springs too.

According to what I've read,healthy deer can abide cold temps almost indefinitely, with a bit of water, cover and chow to see them through.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Yep we heard it all that year.:DTurkeys were frozen solid to limbs,a herd of deer was found frozen solid standing up in a valley in Potter county,and alot of other stories.I heard it all that year.
The following winter I went to camp in march to have a well dug after a long time of deep snow and I did find two skeletons of young deer where the snow had melted.It was right beside the road so I couldn't tell if idiots poached them,starvation,or predators got them.Being right beside the road I'm thinking idiots shot them and left them lay.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Big Country and I and another friend Just came across the PA turnpike from Carlisle to New Stanton. (Saw the Harrisburg show) We saw around 20 deer from the pike. 2 were bedded and the rest were up and feeding. All of them appeared to be just fine.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

You were gettin pretty close to my neck of the woods.:D

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Dang, we could have stopped by for dinner!

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Next time you're up this way let me know.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

You got a deal:D! Uh.... I know this is a lot to ask..... really a lot.... can I still stop if I've got Big Country with me?;)

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Only if he's buying.:D

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Cold temperatures alone don’t really cause much of a problem for wildlife though they will have to eat a little more often when the temperatures drop.

What hurts the deer is deep snow that they have to push through to get to the food. That causes them to expend more energy so they head down hill into the valleys and thermal cover. If they can get into mature stands of pine and hemlock the snow usually isn’t as deep so they have better mobility and often the snow will weight the hemlock down enough to provide browse that isn’t available at other times of the year. As long as those conditions don’t last too long and the concentrations of deer don’t eat all the wintering grounds food the deer will do pretty good.

Deer can also be aversely affected by crusted snow that they can’t walk on top of and break through with each step. When they have those conditions they are easier for the predators to catch. If the crust is solid enough for the deer to walk on thought that can be a benefit to the deer since that elevates them so they can reach browse that is out of their reach at other times of the year. Turkeys do great with a crust, in fact the only time turkeys get in trouble is with deep powdery snow cover that they can’t push through or when they get wet in the springs seeps and then walk through powdery snow until they have ice balls dragging behind them.

If the streams and rivers ice over, like they are doing right now, the deer will use them as travel corridors and feed on the browse they can reach along that edges that is out of their reach during the rest of the year when they wouldn’t be able to reach it. The iced streams work to elevate the deer to where they can reach a lot more browse then they could without the ice.

In this area the deer and turkeys are both doing just fine so far.

R.S.Bodenhorn

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Thanks for all the responses guys.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I am just wondering how they all survived the deep freeze if the food source has been so bad over the years? Kinda strange wouldn't you think?You think they would of starved to death looking for food. How about this theory? The people in charge of deer management have no idea about habitat and food supplies of a deer to survive. Maybe they should study the deers internal functions to figure out why they take little turds that are hard and compressed and all the nutrients are used up. Deer are very efficent animals when it comes to eating and they can take the nutrients they need from any living plant. We are trying to get a permit to see how long a deer can actually live in a 50 by 50 enclosure without the help of man in the wild. This should be quite interesting results. All in the name of survival. We even got a piece of land with a small creek for water supply for this deer. This will let us come to our own conclusion of can a deer eat its self out of house and home. This is how real study of deer and habitat should be performed to get the best results. Also by this, We can tell if we are being BS by the people in charge of deer management. 1 deer in a 50 by 50 caged enviroment with no human outside help. Should be quite interesting at the least.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

OH-OH your in trouble now.:eek: How you gonna get a permit for this study. The results would be interesting I dont think the g/c will give you a permit for that or who takes care of permits. You might have to do this John Wayne style good luck keep us posted.:)

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

maybe a car hit em?:eek:

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Now who could argue with intellect and logic like that?
Science at it's very best!

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

By chance are you a biologist for the USP;)

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Why don't you just lock yourself in your 28'x40' house and quit going to the grocery store and see how long you can survive without any human intervention. Let us know how big your turds are also. I'm betting you have quite aload of turds in you right now as we speak.

BTW, I'm also betting that you might just end up with an animal abuse charge should you proceed with this "scientific" experiment

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

George those studies have already been done many times.Unless,I'm mistaken.R.S.B. actually participated in some of them.Being he's only a LEO,no one would probably take his word on the findings though.

It isn'tthe deer that die during the winter that have the biggest effect.What really matters the most is if the preganant does maintain sufficient body weight to give birth to healthy fawns that will survive.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Yes Doug, But if this was the case, Then why was our deer herds so big if the does was unhealthy to give fawns? The population continued to grow instead of decline. The oppisite would be true if your statement was true.
I have actually seen smaller does. My reason for this is because the does don't have a chance to mature as they use to. We use to see bigger does now we see smaller ones who are not living to be 3 years old as they once did.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

It's not? Here we have lost alot of adult deer and alot of them were pregnant does. The coyotes put the deer onto the ice causing them to hamstring and then it is over for the deer. 2 years ago 23 deer in one deer yard was killed at one location ( about 3 miles from me ) most of them were does with lambs and it was calculated to be from 52 - 54 deer had the fawns survived.

This is a true statement and it is worst in March on them if alot of snowfall has come. This makes it hard for the deer to get all the food they need for the unborn to survive.

Also predators and dogs out running deer in cold weather is very dangerous to the deer in the temps we are currently having. After the deer are run for long lengths of time they will die even if they do not get caught. This happens because the deer when run generate a large amount of body heat and when running for long periods of time releases more heat. Causing the deer to heavily sweat and when they stop the cold air cools them off to quickly causing the deer to develope pneumonia. This in turn can and will kill deer. But, cold air by itself does not appear to kill them when they are not bothered by predators or dogs.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I'm not a biologist but I'm 95% sure that deer dont sweat.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I am not a biologist either but, It is a known fact that deer will die from pneumonia here. And they state the same reasons that I have stated here for the cause of it.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

The temperatures will not overly affect the deer. As someone else stated it will make them burn more energy. For us up here it is more the snow depth and the length of that snow on the ground. They are used to usual winters it is the ones that keep going through March that they get so low on fat reserves that they do not make it. Just the past 4 days the towns just 10 miles North from me have gotten 80 inches of snow and will have over 100 by end of week. We will need some warmer weather in the next couple weeks to compact it down or the deer will start to feel it.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Welcome to Maine, we have our share of cold weather as most states in the north do. Cold weather as a rule do not affect the deer to much. When they are chase for extended periods of time be it predators or your family pet they in fact suffer greatly! They can and will suffer from pneumonia as been the case here. So to think they won't you may be in for a big surprise if they are being chased for long periods of time by those mentioned above. If they are not botherd by those other animals they will do fine.Here they tend to go into the thick cedar swamps for food and cover. They come up out of them to feed in the cuttings and are doing great as the coyotes do not appear to be so thick this year. So if our amount of snowfall stays the way it is now it should give us another good year of hunting ahead.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

George,we were blessed with mild winters all throuout the 80's and 90's with just a few exceptions.Combine a mild winter witha good mast crop and the herd will increase.Unfortunately,when we have a hard winter and apoor mast crop,the herd declines and there's evidence to support this.A deer needs several pounds of browse a day during the winterto sustain it's body weight.Once a doe loses 20%,the chances of her giving birth to healthy fawns is almost zero.Why do do think some of the most rugged and remote ares of Pa have seen such a decline in the deer population lately?Hunters aren't killing them in these areasand the doe mortality study proves that.

Phil,I'm not saying winter mortality can't be a problem.I'm saying you don't have to find dead deer in order for there to be a problem.If you have deer dieing,lack of recruitment will definately be an issue and you'll soon have alot less deer.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

So the PGC has became weather experts and can predict the weather? I bet the enviromentalist would like their input on global warming. So the PGC are predicting harsher winters and the deer herd must be thinned for their survival. That is interesting.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I highly doubt it moose because it's a dirt road on a hill which makes travel slow.And the road was basically ice covered throughout that winter which really made travel slow.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Just the opposite George.They can't bank on a mild winter and a good mast crop every year.The herd needs to be balanced with the habitat.Less browse means less deer.Less deer also means healthier deer,better habitat for all game and more fawns suviving.Everything revolves around habitat.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Deer do not get pneumonia from sweating and they don't sweat anyway. They get pneumonia from panting for extended periods in the freezing temps and the accompanyingexhaustion. The dry cold air dries out their lungs and the lack of moisture in their tissues lowers their resistance to bacteria, which leads to infection. Same reason my grandmother would get bronchitis and pneumonia in the winter unless we ran a humidifier for her, which kept her lungs from drying out.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

DougE has it right about managing for the carrying capacity of the habitat. And the way its done is to manage for "worst case". For instance you redue the herd to 20 deer per square mile - if that is all the deer it will support in a BAD winter. Sure some years are mild, and it would be possible to support more deer in those years - but the lower population also gives the habitat to regenerate.

In my are - we get a decent amount of snow - (150"ish) per year mostly in DEC,JAN, & FEB. We have a fairly high deer population - 30ish deer/square mile - sometimes a little more. We also have decent agriculture with dairy farms (not as many as before though). So most of our deer don't die in a bad winter - They usually have less fawns as a result.

FH

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

The further north in the range of the white-tail deer you go the more likely the populations are to be influenced or even controlled by the length and severity of the winter. That is why winter mortality of deer is a bigger factor in upstate New York and up through the New England states to Maine then it is here in Pennsylvania, at least during a normal Pennsylvania winter. It is also true that temperature do somewhat affect the survivability of deer, that is why the further north you go the larger the body of the deer. The further north the deer will have more body mass and proportionally less heat loss area (nose, ears, etc.) so they can retain more heat through the cold winters.

Here in Pennsylvania we are just far enough south that don’t have much winter mortality but we do have major fluctuations in the fawn survival rates that are induced by the fall mast crop combined with the length and severity of the winter.

As for the affects of deer dying after being run by predators that actually does occur though it is more often the result of stress myopothy (sp ?) or just the lack of being able to find sufficient food to replace the energy lost from being chased repeatedly. Stress or capture myopothy, as it is sometimes called, is the result of the animal pumping so much adrenaline into the muscle tissue that it can result in the animal dying days or even weeks later. Deer seem to be the species most prone to mortality from stress myopothy. It happens to a relatively high percentage of the deer that get captured and handled unless the incident is very short in duration. That is why our deer handling teams try to have very little and very quick contact with the research deer they capture. That is also why trap and transfer of deer doesn’t enjoy much success like it does with animals less flighty then deer.

Stress myophothy can result from the deer being stressed from any type of major disturbance while they are locked in winter yarding areas too so I suspect that is at least what happens when the deer are believed to be dying of pneumonia. As I said previously though it can also be that the deer will die simply from not being able to replace energy lost after repeated disturbance during times when food is hard to find or get to. If you do a professionally necropsy on the deer they should be able to distinguish between the various cause of death. But, in reality that most likely doesn’t happen, due to the expanse and hassles of transporting deer to a diagnostic laboratory when there is no indication of disease or anything more then normal winter affects. In fact, in the truest sense of the big picture it really doesn’t matter which deer died of starvation, predation or stress myopothy since they are all non-infectious and generally related and connected to the winter conditions.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

R.S.B.,
MAybe I should start another thread w/ this question, but I'd like to know what your thoughts are as far as survival for this year?
The mast crop was consumed pretty early in most areas close to here.
It seems the deer are starting to eat my rhodadendren.(spell?)
If the conditions remain somewhat the same,what will be the condition of the herd locally?

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

i see , that makes sense.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I'm sure another problem of long periods of extremely cold temps is water sources freezing over. But I guess they could eat snow too.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Elk will eat snow if they get thirsty enough, don't know if I've ever seen any documentaion that supports snow eating by whitetails though.

In the areas of northernPotter and Tioga countiesthat I'm familiar with, there are many spring seeps of various sizesback in the woods, that should offer some water almost all winter long. My uncle's farm across the valley from my camp, got its water from a pasture-bank spring (old cast iron ram pump),for many years before uncle had a welldrilled.

That largespring never froze, wasn't unusual to see deer out there gettin' a drink just75 yards from the barn, in very cold weather.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

I've seen it so cold up in potter the springs were giving off steam.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

Those are just hot springs.if you hit them at the right time in Feb,you can catch Denny F.taking a warm dip.

RE: How long can Whitetails survive the deep freeze?
 

perhaps you are right , however here they state it is pneumonia. So that is what I have been going by.