State Harvest Reports
 

How many people send in their harvest reports? Be totally honest.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

great idea for a poll!!!!!

If more hunters would send them PGC would have an outstanding handle on the herd.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I'm not sure if I've sent every one for the past 38 years but I am probably close to 100%

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Tagging stations here fill them out automatically for you so the report is sent in when tagged.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

If responses to this poll are any indication as to what State game agencies are up against, no wonder theres such big estimate problems.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

C'MON GUYS ....GIVE US A HAND ...ANSWER THE POLL.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Cut me some slack man I just now saw this thread.:D
I checked the first box but most likely especially in my younger days I forgot a few.Couldn't check the second box because off the top of my head I can't say I remember forgetting one.Kinda cornfusing huh?:D
But I do take the harvest reports seriously and love filling them out because that means I kilt something.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

"Tagging stations here fill them out automatically for you so the report is sent in when tagged."

Now there's an interesting idea. It that works in Maine, why don't we give it a try in Pennsylvania?

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Now there's an interesting idea. It that works in Maine, why don't we give it a try in Pennsylvania?

Perhaps it's because Maine has less than a quarter of the number of hunters that PAhas; kills far less than a quarter of the deer we do in PA; and Maine is far smaller in areathan PA is? Just a guess.

:)

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

What,...Pennsylvania can't manage the logistics? Little Maine can do it effectively and "BIG" Pennsylvania is.......unable to accomplish such a simple task?

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Is Maine still staffed by general law enforcement officers who double as game wardens?
Does the operating revenue still come out of tax revenue?
Dunno. Might be worth examining if truly looking for answers.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Don't know what Maine's status is on those questions. Do know that I've seen this issue of deer check stations come up often for debate over the years, usually "pushed" by those whodemand a more accurate accounting of PA's deer kills and PA's pre-season deer numbers.

In most cases cited as being themodels of accuracy, those states have far fewer hunters, far fewer deer, far fewer deer kills and often are much smaller states in area. Those states also wind up using check station data as one more component of their deer calculations. PA's system of calculation has been studied by otherdeer management professionals and has been found to be acceptable for the purposes of statistical gathering and analysis.

Which after all, is exactly what it's all about: A system that studies data, determines the reliability/repeatability of the system and produces an acceptable result. In PA's case, it's done with far less output of manpower and money to achieve the same endresult. It also entails far less effort on the part of hunters, who do not have to find a check station on their way home.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Automated point of sale licensing and electronic reporting is right around the corner....

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Crazy Horse do you hi-jack every thread?? It's getting a little old!!

I send me report cards in every year!!!

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Its a good idea. They do it down in Tennesee.What do hunter numbers got to do with it or if your state is bigger than mine. I agree with the guy from Maine. You have to do your taxes and get your car inspected dont you. With all the changes the g/c does each yr whats one more and it would benefit the g/c imagine that.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

What system did we have when we supposedly had 1.6 million deer and now the g/c doesnt use it anymore. Hope those other states saw this and dont follow behind Pa. too closely!

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Here's a question ??

Why don't the butchers and taxidermy people take the tags off the deer and send them in. I'm only saying that cause i know that I don't butcher my own and my butcher doesn't send them in cause i asked him before and he said never !! People should be responsible for there own, but then again people now a days can't even care for themselves !!
Just an Idea !!

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

The PGC pays frequent visits to processors, but I don't know about Taxidermists. There are still alot of people who still butcher their own deer so it isn't totally accurate either.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

They visit taxidermists as well but I'm not sure if its solely for the purpose of calculating harvests. Maybe RSB can help us out here and clarify a bit.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Iam not trying to change or hyjack this topic but, here in Maine the wardens are paid for out of the general fund. however all taging stations have a kit that they use to measure the gurth of an antler and an envelope that the hunter must remove a tooth to place in it. Then that is normally picked up later by a biologist, a warden, or in some cases sent into them. Then the research and tally is done from there. AlsoI can agree we do not have a big number of deer here, but Maine is a big state. Maine is scatterd out with not being over crowded as alot of states are, and the deer here can get very big in most areas. If the mild winters keep up exspect to see the deer numbers start rising also. Anyways I believe all this info goes to the biologists first and then the numbers are sent into the states reginal headquarters for a final tally on age and sex of all deer registard. After this gets put all together a report is put out to all tagging stations so everyone knows how the deer hunting has done.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Our wardens probably spend more time on calls about nuisance critters then actual law inforcement in many parts of the state.A general fund in that aspect would be fair.But then there's the state land our hunting licenses paid for.While hikers,bike riders and such can use this land hunting is the main focus.If this were funded by the general public demands from them would increase.ATV trails seems to be the hot topic right now.That wouldn't be a good thing for hunters.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

same here in vermont

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

One thing is certain: if and when Pa. ever institutes check stations, the same people who defend the present system that results in only an alleged 40% return rate will step all over themselves defending check stations as if they were God's gift to man.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I hunted West Virginia for many years until 2002.

They had mandatory check stations. Back then WV allowed a hunter to take about 7 deer a year, if you bought every tag. Many years I'd take 5 deer. Check stations were small stores and gas stations. They were manned by the store's/station's employees.

The idea that PA can't do it is BS. PA may be bigger, have more hunters, have more deer BUT with all the gas stations, small stores, sporting goods stores, gun shops, archery shops, fire stations, etc...here in Good ole PA, it could be done. Small states such as Maine may have fewer hunters and places to check deer but PA, being bigger, has MORE places for check stations. We are bigger, we have more places for check stations to ease the burden. Even allowing the place of the checking station to charge a small fee, maybe $1


Even without check stations there could be mandatory reporting before you purchase the following year's liceness. If you don't report by a certain date, you don't get a license.

Change the license year to run from January to January would be a good start. Check in by the end of Febuary to get the following year's license.

The PGC says they aren't geared up to do that but I think they can somehow tweek the system they already have in place that watches how many elk license applications an individual sends in, If you recieved a bobcat permit the previous year, if you sent in to several different counties for a bonus antlerless license.

How does the PGC know if a person didn't send in several bonus applications during the first round drawing? How do they know if a person didn't purchase two regular licenses to be able to take two bucks? How do they know if a guy sends in two elk applications hoping to get an elk license? How do they know if a guy , that had his license suspended, if he doesn't just go ahead and buy a license the next year anyway?

How do they track all of this?

I think they could tweek itto makeharvest reports mandatory before buying the next year's license. If you don't report, you don't get a license.


By the way, I send in every report card but I know many guys that don't. I try to explain the importance of it but they don't care. It is guys like this that make me want a mandatory reporting system.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Nice moose you got there windwalker. On the check stations thats the way they do it down in Tennesee I was there. Why we cant do it here is simply amazing. You set up a system and work it dont matter if you got 900,000 hunters or 124,000 hunters it will work and state size has nothing to do with it at all as some would beleive[8D]

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

People don't take the time to fill out a card and mail it--which is postage-paid-let alone drive out of their way to a check station

btw,I send mine in every year

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I once took a look at the feasibly of check stations here in Elk County.

If you forced every sporting goods store and Ma/Pa gas station in the county to act as a check station (which I don’t think we have the authority to do) and then required them to hire enough people to perform extra work like checking deer, we would have a grand total of about eight places in the entire county. Most of those places don’t have very big parking lots either since they typically only deal with a few cars at a time so people would have to park along the highways with traffic flowing past in both directions.

I figured out the typical single day deer kill, on the opening day of the season, for just Elk County, which sometimes ranges between about 2000 and 3000 deer. That would mean each place would have to process between 250 and 375 deer on that day if they all got an equal number of deer brought to their check point. Let’s assume that each place hired two extra employees, for that day, and it took no more then five minutes to process a deer. But, since the deer aren’t going to start coming into the check stations until at least mid day with a major influx during the evening when hunters are on their way home the deer would not all arrive at an even and steady flow.

Let’s then assume that even the low percentage of only 60 % of the opening day harvest came in after 5:00 pm on that opening day. That would leave about 150 to 225 deer for each station to process after 5:00 pm and before closing time. With two people working steady, no potty or meal breaks and no time to visit or hear hunter stories, they could maybe process a total of 24 deer per hour if it only took five minutes per deer (which is really stretching it). At that rate they should have all of the deer through the check station sometime between 11:15 pm and 1:30 am. Of course that is provided each station had about an equal deer flow and everything went perfectly and as planned.

Now we have to ask, how long are you willing to sit in line to have your deer checked? What about the guy that gets one out behind the house, drags it home and has to put it in the car and drive fifteen minutes to the check point; is he going to do that and then sit and wait for hours? How about the fact that the every news media and anti-hunter in the state are going to be at the check points to take pictures and provide Nationals News casts of all of the kills and the behaviors of the hunters? How are hunters going to react when some anti is standing there heckling them in front of a news camera after they have been sitting in a line for hours just to get their deer checked? How many hunters do you really think are going to go to a check point once you take the time to really think things through fro a couple of minutes?

I seriously doubt the reporting rate would be any better then it is right now and might not even be as high as it is now. What could possibly be any easier then taking five minutes to fill out a card and drop it in a mailbox? Place that have check stations are typically dealing in a few dozen deer, or less, being brought to the check stations in a day not a few hundred.

I have asked local hunters if they would take a deer to a check station if we had check stations. Most of them don’t even answer; they just kind of shake their head and walk away laughing. I guess that pretty much answers that question though doesn’t it.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

This has been going on here! The tags to tag your deer costs you $1 and then why they are there they brouse around the store and usually buy while others come in to see the deer that is being tagged. The othersnormally buy something as well. So it is a win, win situation for those small stores. It is also good for them to here wow, I didn't think you had this item, as it is being bought. So it is good all the way around for those small places that registrate your deer.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Oh, but I have asked the merchants of the area what they thought of the idea of being a deer check station. After they gave it a bit of thought about having to hire extra people for one or two days a year and staying open late into the night they said no thank you.

After they thought about it for a little while they figured all they would end up with would be a lot of extra people standing around watching the deer coming in. They thought they would have so many spectators over taxing the very limited restroom facilities they have that they would have to have port-a-johns brought in. They figured they would have litter left all over their parking lot and that most of the people wouldn’t buy much of anything from them anyway. A couple of them thought about it from the perspective of setting up food tables until they thought about the fact that much of it was going to be late evening stuff when everyone wanted to just go home.

The simple fact is they didn’t want anything to do with it unless the Game Commission was willing to pay all of the employee costs and still paying them so much per deer just to be set up checking deer on their property.

Once again you go off talking about something of which you have done no research yet think you have it all figured out.

R.S.Bodenhorn

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I dont disgree that we need a better reporting system but the gas station, mom n pop store, etc check staions arent the answer either


I used those convenience store check stations in West Virginia several times and I can tell you that the quality of the checking process left a bit to be desired. How accurate can you expect the information to be when it's taken by a minimum wage employee who's running gas pumps, making coffee and checking out a parade of customers.

Illinois just gave up the local check stations for an automated call in system that works very well. Your deer becomes illegal if you dont call it in by 10PM on the day you recover it. You get a confirmation number by phone and you'd better not transport that deer without it. I'm told thats the general direction we're likely to be headed.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I've got an idea why don't we use the USP members homes and or businesses for check stations. As we all know oh so well the Secretary cares so much about our deer harvest system I'm sure he could get his booming membership to step up and volunteer their time to do the job.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

As has already been explained the states that have check stations were hunters bring deer harvest about as many deer during a good harvest day as are harvested per hour on the opening day of the Pennsylvania deer season.

We simply don’t have the capacity, even if all of the Ma/Pa gas stations and sporting goods stores wanted to do it, in a manner that could possibly cycle hunters through in a timely manner. If hunters have to sit in line for even a couple of hours they simply aren’t going to do it, they are going to just take the deer home, process it and keep their mouths shut. Now ask them to sit in line for five or six hours or more and how well do you think it is going to work?

You make it sound like it would work in the other parts of the state even if the indications are that it wouldn’t work here in Elk County. But, the fact of the matter is that most of these northern tier counties no longer have Ma & Pa gas stations because they have been put out of business by places like Sheetz, Uni-Mart and a host of other stop and go shopping places. Those places have no interest in checking deer. We have three small sporting goods stores in the entire county and two of them have no parking except paid parking meters in the City of St. Marys. We have one small sporting good store with a one man operation that has a parking lot capable of handling more then ten cars at a time. We have one small country general store in the extreme northern part of the county that is a one man operation. We have four or five other small stores or gas stations in the county and most of them wouldn’t have the capacity, the interest or the manpower to check deer through half of the night.

Elk County is not alone in not having the facilities to find check stations, most of the other counties around the northern tier are very much in the same boat. In all of neighboring Cameron County I can only think of about four or five places that might have the capacity even if they had an interest in running a check station. You also have to remember that most people around these areas are hunters and they are not going to give up their opening day of deer season so they can volunteer to check deer that other hunters killed.

The really big thing though is that the states that do have deer check stations will tell you flat out that they probably don’t have a much better hunter reporting rate then states like Pennsylvania were hunters send in cards, report via phone or on line. Many of those states don’t have any handle on what their reporting rate really is even though they know it is not a good reporting rate. At least in Pennsylvania we do have a pretty darn good idea what our reporting rates are each year.

The Pennsylvania deer reporting and harvest estimating system has been evaluated by a professional accounting group that found the method and results to be very accurate and reliable.

You and the other detractors as just grasping at straws to find anything to discredit the Game Commission, the deer program, the officers and anyone that supports scientific management practices. Fortunately more rational people are no longer listening to your nonsense as much as they once did. That is presently a positive for the future of good wildlife management, the hunter and hunting. I have seen things on a positive course before only to once again have the whole program derailed so I would not be surprised if it happened again. But, one thing you can be sure of; I will be doing the best I can to debunk your nonsense and provide what information I can toward having more informed hunters in our ranks. Better informed hunters generally support good scientific management practices like those the Game Commission is trying to maintain with the minimum funding available.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

John,
Do you realize that you are contributing to the very issue you and your USP friends are complaining about. By not sending report cards in, it makes it harder for the GC to get a handle on the deer herd in any given area.You can surely see why. If no cards come in they must determinethat most huntersdid not harvest a deer and based on a formulato the best possible means,theyattempt to accurately issue doe tags for the following year.
In essence you have created the very problem you blame others for. If you and your friends all fail to send reports in the problem is compounded exponentially.
Look in the mirror for John. Be honest with yourself.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I guess one of us gotta get one of those USP decoder rings;).

Better get it soon though, before long it'll be as useful as confederate money.

Now to be serious, I can think of only two possible reasons as to why someone who openly criticizes the report card process for its lowsubmission rate wouldnt send in those report cards.

Either he hasnt shot a deer in years........ or he's deliberately violating the law to further the warped cause of the USP whose goal seems only to be diruptive whenevr and wherever possible when it comes to PA wildlife management.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

Back in October at thePGC's deer kill calculation open house,USP's avocational deer mgt. expert Woody Shields,challenged Dr. Rosenberry, head of the PGC deer management team, to explain why they don't "go after" those who don't send report cards in. It was explained to him, that it's not worth the effort, since many magistrates will accept as a defense, that the hunter had sent it in, but "it musta got lost in the mail".

Mr. Shields alsoclaimed to know ofsomehunters that didn't send in reports and possibly some that sent in false reports and continued to berate Dr. Rosenberry about how they could accuratelytrack deer kills with only a 40% reporting rate. Someone from PGC law enforcement then asked Mr. Shields for names, places and dates on these people he knew who had not sent in reports. I think he just babbled after that, said he didn't actually have that info. Whereupon the LE representative said, then it's just more gossip and hearsay, is it?

They ask for answers, then dismiss the answers when they get them. One of the components of their late-great lawsuit, was that the PGC will not discuss issues with them or provide data when they demand it. Why bother, when all they do is distort data and spin answers to their questions anyway?

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

I've hunted West Virginia for over 15 years. The Ma and Pa stores do it. West Virginia towns are noted for not having lots of money. The store we usually go to has about six employees that all work to process the deer. Some years students from WVU are their to collect data. Weight, antler size, teeth, etc... I don't really see them needing to hire extra workers.


As mentioned above, hunters browse the store and but snacks. No one seems to mind. It gives hunters a chance to tell their tale and check out other deer. The system works and somehow the low income towns of West " By God" Virginia pull it off.

Look at it this way. If someone doesn't have the checking station tag on their deer. The PGC can fine them. Make the fine steep enough that slob hunters won't "forget" to get them checked.

States like west Virginia and maryland don't seem to have the divided hunters like PA has. They don't bash their game Officials like PA hunters do. Maybe they have a better handle on things?

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

RSB,



How many times have you been to a deer check station?

From personal experience, I've checked at least 50 deer into a West Virginia check station over a period of 17 years.

You don't like it when people spin things about the PGC but that is exactly what you are doing about check stations.

You claim that hunters wait hours, not true.

It only takes 2 or 3 minutes. All they do is check off if it is a male or female and write down what area you got it. They take your license number and name.

I think you should ride down to WV and watch the process........OOOhhh....That's right, you guys are all crowded around the bear check stations making an easy job of checking in a bear last an hour.

You guys could learn alot from the WV CO's

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

In 2003, i bagged a bear in Somerset Co. I took it to the check station.

There were only 3 guys there with a bear. there were at least a dozen PGC guys there. It took at least 45 minutes to get my bear checked in. The other two guys were done and just hanging out. I was the only bear to be checked.


I think RSB is comparing this to how other states operate their check stations. It isn't that complicated.

I'm not sure what the WV Game officials did to get college students to take the information but maybe the PGC could get Penn State students that are studying a wildlife field to help.

In WV the students had 3 or 4 places set up at one station to take down info. They even weighed deer and took jaw samples. There were also 2Game officials there.


When I checked in my PA bear I had to go into a room and sit down with a lady on a computer. She would ask all kinds of questions while Charlie May,the Fayette head Game official and Rod Ansell, the head Westmoreland Officialchimed in with their questions. I felt it was an interigation but anyhow it took a while. I had to take my license out of the holder while they inspected it and looked at my duck stamp. You would have thought I committed a crime by getting a bear.

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

In NY york here you used to have to send in a report. Now for the past few years it is just a phone call. I have never failed to report a deer ever and have no respect for anyone who can not. They complain that the phone system is too hard!! It takes like 5 to 8 minutes give me an f in break! They are the same guys who keep saying the DEC does not know what it is doing!! How about follow the law and report your deer and help them have a better idea than figuring mythical formulas. I feel if you do not report your deer once it should be a $250 fine, second time $1000 and third strike you lose your license for a decade. Freakin slob hunters I have no use for em!!

RE: State Harvest Reports
 

And another thing:D


One of the check stations we went to was a BP station. Another was a Grocery store. The other was a gas station.


They don't all have to be a Ma and Pop store.


Heck, the PGC could set up a few like they do for bear and elk.

There is a lot of spin being put on this issue.

Just have the tags made out where you color in the little circle for the appropiateanswer.


0ANTLERED MALE

0 ADULT DOE

FAWN
0 MALE

0 FEMALE

LICENSE #__________

NAME_______________

AREA OF KILL______________