DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
01-30-2007, 06:24 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moravia NY USA
Posts: 2,164
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sagittarius62
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
From that page:
So the bill doesn't call for prosecuting people who kill wildlife, but rather people who kill wildlife "with no justifiable purpose" with the intention of inflicting extreme pain or killing in an extremely depraved or sadistic manner.
To the highly vocal vegans, AR advocates, Peta people,etc, there is NO "justifiable purpose" and ALL killing of anaimals is depraved or sadistic!
Support of that bill indicates either a complete lack of understanding of AR's goal or support of those goals.
Either way, not a person to have in charge of the only agency with authority over NYS outdoorsmen and hunters.
Steve
01-30-2007, 08:56 AM
#22
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sagittarius62
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
You tell me, the wording of the proposed bill is as follows, from your own link:
A person is guilty of aggravated cruelty to animals when, with no justifiable purpose, he or she intentionally kills or intentionally causes serious physical injury to a companion animal, OR WILD GAME AND WILD BIRDS AS DEFINED IN SECTION 11-0103 OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, with aggravated cruelty. For purposes of this section, "aggravated cruelty" shall mean conduct which: (i) is intended to cause extreme physical pain; or (ii) is done or carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner
So, let's put our thinking caps on for a second, shall we? Hmmm... Intended to cause extreme physical pain. Could the intention of killing an animal be viewed as extreme physical pain? You bet.Carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner... Hmmm, like an accidental gut shot, or use of archery equipment?
These elements I have just stated would be put forward by a lunatic ARW. Ain't no doubt or argument over that truth. We've been fighting this exact same thing for many years across the fruited plain.
So, I need you to clarify what the heck you are trying to say. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA and HSUS? I suspect the latter..
01-30-2007, 09:57 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
So, let's put our thinking caps on for a second, shall we? Hmmm... Intended to cause extreme physical pain. Could the intention of killing an animal be viewed as extreme physical pain? You bet. Carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner... Hmmm, like an accidental gut shot, or use of archery equipment?
01-30-2007, 10:53 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,157
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
this guys a clown who's never been outside of his manhattan skyscraper.. he does NOT speak for me, nor does he speak for ANY hunters or fishers.
He was appointed by a man that will go down in history as ther worst govenor of NY.
the man wants "sport hunting" and trapping to end. period.
you city clowns keep voting people like this in.... christ allmighty, New York CITY voted in HILLARY CLINTON FOR SENATE..... WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?
New york city shgould be a separate entity from the rest of new york state. i'm sick of supporting them and sick of them having a say in what goes on out here in the real world.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
ok, rant over.
discuss
He was appointed by a man that will go down in history as ther worst govenor of NY.
the man wants "sport hunting" and trapping to end. period.
you city clowns keep voting people like this in.... christ allmighty, New York CITY voted in HILLARY CLINTON FOR SENATE..... WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?
New york city shgould be a separate entity from the rest of new york state. i'm sick of supporting them and sick of them having a say in what goes on out here in the real world.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
ok, rant over.
discuss
01-30-2007, 11:09 AM
#25
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
If I were a NY hunter right now, I'd move. Honest, guys, you might want to consider it. [&:]
I also heard that last year in 2006, NY State (for the first time in state history) actually dropped in population census(i.e. more people moved away from NY State than came in or were born). ---Yo, Hildabeast andcheesy-a$$ed Schumer... Care to explain that one or will you continue to hide this fact from the press?!?! [:@]
Butch A.
I also heard that last year in 2006, NY State (for the first time in state history) actually dropped in population census(i.e. more people moved away from NY State than came in or were born). ---Yo, Hildabeast andcheesy-a$$ed Schumer... Care to explain that one or will you continue to hide this fact from the press?!?! [:@]
Butch A.
01-30-2007, 12:23 PM
#27
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
I don't see how anybody can logically argue that killing in the context of hunting is done with the "intent" to cause "extreme physical pain". We all know that every time we release an arrow or shoot a gun at an animal the possibility exists for causing extreme pain and suffering but clearly that is not our intent. An "accidental" gut shot is by definition unintentional and therefore wouldn't qualify as violating the bill, at least not the way I read it. Would an animal rights lunatic try to distort it in that direction. Probably but it would indeed require a distortion of the bill to do it. Now I don't know this guy Grannis and he could well be the worst possible choice for hunters but I don't think it can be concluded simply on the basis of his advocating this bill. I don't think supporting this bill means you are for the goals of the animal rights lunatics any more than you can say opposing it means you are advocating cruelty to animals. Both are distortions. I think everybody is against the idea of going out with the sadistic intent to make animals suffer. I think everybody is againt the sick kids who think its funny to tie 2 cats tails together and throw them over a close line. I think we can all agree on the "intent" of the bill so how would you word it?
So, let's put our thinking caps on for a second, shall we? Hmmm... Intended to cause extreme physical pain. Could the intention of killing an animal be viewed as extreme physical pain? You bet. Carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner... Hmmm, like an accidental gut shot, or use of archery equipment?
It may seem far-fetched, Sylvan, but it isn't. And with the Governor's ability to appoint judges in NYS Appellate Court and I think the NYS SUpreme Court (could be wrong on the SC), is it really that far-fetched?
01-30-2007, 12:25 PM
#28
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Covington, NY
Posts: 118
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
Link takes you to an AR advocate claiming to be a hunter.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
Link takes you to an AR advocate claiming to be a hunter.
So, I need you to clarify what the heck you are trying to say. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA and HSUS? I suspect the latter.
01-30-2007, 12:50 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
ORIGINAL: Sagittarius62
I don't know this guy from Adam, but if you get that this cat is an animal rights advocate from his web site, http://www.animalrights.net/ I don't know what to say.
PETA? HSUS? Not hardly. What I am trying to say is that there is more to the story, and if folks are going to argue about an issue maybe we should have the facts straight. Again, however a knee jerk reaction like your above post shows that the facts are not really what you want.
As is usually the case, there is more to the story.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
Link takes you to an AR advocate claiming to be a hunter.
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2005/04/000019.html
Link takes you to an AR advocate claiming to be a hunter.
So, I need you to clarify what the heck you are trying to say. Or are you a card carrying member of PETA and HSUS? I suspect the latter.
That's right, the day it was crafted and introduced for debate. We've had more than just a bunch of hunters sittin' around, scratching ourselves, trying to think of how this law would affect us. NO, we actually have some attorneys at our disposal, who volunteer their time to reveiw this stuff and explain what precedences could be set.
When it comes to the law and legislative proposals, I'll defer translation and opinion to an attorney rather than an outdoors writer, like myself. When the lawyers tell us what can be, I'll go with that.
01-30-2007, 01:21 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
RE: DEC Commissioner Nominated by Spitzer - Uh Oh
Ok, well, although Bill A1850 has been deleted (that wonderful animal cruelty bill) it looks as though it was resubmitted under a new number, A03006.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A03006
This one was recently introduced, going in the avenue of Agriculture...
We currently have attorneys examining this one. It does expressly say the laws do not apply to licensed hunting and trapping activities, but, this is being reviewed nonetheless. MOre to come.
Also, we are currently looking into a couple more proposals hot off the presses, co-sponsored by Grannis, which appears will make access to hunting and fishingon Forest Lands (private) gonzo under real property law 480. I am looking into this one as I type.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A03006
This one was recently introduced, going in the avenue of Agriculture...
We currently have attorneys examining this one. It does expressly say the laws do not apply to licensed hunting and trapping activities, but, this is being reviewed nonetheless. MOre to come.
Also, we are currently looking into a couple more proposals hot off the presses, co-sponsored by Grannis, which appears will make access to hunting and fishingon Forest Lands (private) gonzo under real property law 480. I am looking into this one as I type.