|
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
 ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter yes, a lot are hunting ispast time now illegally but just think, now we are going to put hundreds more out there walking around and others in trees looking and saying,I WONDER IF THATS A DEER, I HAVE NOT SEEN A DEER ALL DAY AND WITH LACK OF DEER DO TO THE DCNR/PGC DEER ERADICATION PROGRAM,I BETTER SHOOT..UH OH, GUESS WHAT THAT WAS NOT A FAWN I SHOT, OH BOY, IT WAS HUNTER!! this is type of hunters you are seeing now also, they want meat do to lack of deer.. No data exists supporting the idea that that last half hour is any less safe than the first half hour. Or at least none has been presented other than opinions. ItIS a fact that the vast majority of states have hunting during that last half hour after sunset with no additional no safety problems. sunset. |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter yes, a lot are hunting ispast time now illegally but just think, now we are going to put hundreds more out there walking around and others in trees looking and saying,I WONDER IF THATS A DEER, I HAVE NOT SEEN A DEER ALL DAY AND WITH LACK OF DEER DO TO THE DCNR/PGC DEER ERADICATION PROGRAM,I BETTER SHOOT..UH OH, GUESS WHAT THAT WAS NOT A FAWN I SHOT, OH BOY, IT WAS HUNTER!! this is type of hunters you are seeing now also, they want meat do to lack of deer.. No data exists supporting the idea that that last half hour is any less safe than the first half hour. Or at least none has been presented other than opinions. ItIS a fact that the vast majority of states have hunting during that last half hour after sunset with no additional no safety problems. sunset. 21.3 % of all accidents were during a period of low light in the morning or evening. 12.8 % of all incidents occurred in the low light of dawn 6.4 % of all incidents occurred in the low light of evening 2.1 % of all incidents occurred in dark (morning or evening unknown) 27.7 % of all incidents were victim in line of fire when shot 23.4 % of all incidents were victim shot in mistake for game 51.1 % of all incidents involved one hunter shooting another hunter in either mistake for game of victim in the line of fire [ul][/ul]51.1 % were shot with a shotgun [ul][/ul]44.7 % were shot with a rifle [ul][/ul]2.1 % were shot with a muzzle loader [ul][/ul]2.1 % were shot with a bow [ul][/ul]39 % were hunting deer [ul][/ul]26 % were hunting small game [ul][/ul]23 % were hunting turkey [ul][/ul]2 % were hunting bear [ul][/ul]There are presently more accidents occurring in the low light of the time period before sunrise then there are in the low light of evening. Low light evening accidents are already making up about half as many incidents as the even lower light conditions as occur in the low light of morning even though the low light of evening hunting ends a half hour earlier then the low light of evening. Therefore, it would only seem logical that the number of accidents occurring in the low light of evening would increase to a higher number if we allowed hunters to hunt into even lower light conditions then already occur when shooting hours end in the evening. Since over half of all incidents are incidents where one hunter is shooting another hunter that they either didn’t see or had mistaken for game it is only logical to expect that number to increase if we allow more hunting time in low light conditions. As I said before, due to the close distances involved in archery hunting and safety record during that season I could support the half hour later for that season. I could not support the addition for firearms hunter other then perhaps an additional 15 minutes for flintlock muzzle loader season. Dick Bodenhorn |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
ORIGINAL: R.S.B. I could pretty easily accept 30 minutes after sunset for archery hunting because things have to be close enough for clear identification to be in bow range. Even in the dark conditions that exist at 30minutes after sunset a person should still be able to tell the difference between a person and a deer once they are within bow range. For firearm hunting though I am opposed to extending the shooting hours to 30 minutes past sunset because at that time of the day most hunters would be moving out of the woods while they and hunters still on stand would still be in the hunting mode. As the light diminishes there would be hunters watching movement, a hundred yards of more away, and trying to figure out what they were looking at. Some of those hunters would be in the final stages of desperation because they haven’t got their deer yet and this is their last chance. Some of those hunters would also convince themselves they were watching a deer and end up shooting another hunter. You can argue that the light conditions are just as poor when shooting hours begin in the morning and you would be right about the light conditions. But, in the morning hunters have usually arrived on a stand long before light, generally with the aid of a flashlight, and everyone is just sitting and waiting for a deer to come past them. At that time of the day few hunters are moving around plus the hunters are not yet feeling desperate to get their deer since the day still holds much promise and hope. Another factor is that researchers, that study the human eye or what the brain processes after the eye has seen it, have determined that the eye and brain adapt and process what ahs been seen more rapidly during increasing light (morning) then diminishing light (evening). No matter how you want to view it, or whether you want to accept it or not, if we allow rifle hunters to hunt 30 minutes after sunset there will be more hunters looking at other hunters and trying to figure out if they are going to shoot or not. I don’t think that would be a very comfortable feeling for most hunters when those hunters are carrying rifles capable of shooting a person at a couple hundred yards. I guess I could almost accept expanding the hours to 15 minute past sunset during the late muzzle loader season too though since the deer has to be pretty close for a shot with a muzzle loader and a person should be able to make the distinction between a person and a deer at the closer range even with slightly lower light conditions then are normal for that time of the year, especially when there is snow cover. I did watch a hunter coming from the woods at about 20 minutes after the end of legal shooting hours during muzzle loader season though and I could see little more then movement and didn’t know what I was watching until they were within about a hundred yards. Granted there was no snow that evening and it was overcast, but I couldn’t even tell the person was wearing an orange vest until they were within about 20 yards of me. There is a lot to be considered if a person really wants to make a wise decision on this one. I tend to think we are better off being on the conservative side with the regulations then we are by putting hunters at greater risk. I know if it changes to 30 minutes after sunset during rifle season I will be coming out of the woods, before or after shooing hours, with a flashlight turned on. I also know that I will be looking a lot more closely at hunting equipment and I’ll bet I will be issuing a lot more citations for hunters using lighted sights and scopes. In fact I bet I will even be arresting more people for using a light to better see the deer while they are on stand and trying to make their shot, thus turning their hunt and kill into a major game law violation. R.S.Bodenhorn I have to disagree here. Since blaze orange is required for rifle hunters, I don't think that light would be diminished enough for a "desperate" hunter to confuse a hunter for a deer. |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
I just don't get these guys that shoot a hunter in mistake for a deer.
How did that hunter determine if he was shooting a buck or doe? Did he see a rack? How many points? |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
ORIGINAL: R.S.B. ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter yes, a lot are hunting ispast time now illegally but just think, now we are going to put hundreds more out there walking around and others in trees looking and saying,I WONDER IF THATS A DEER, I HAVE NOT SEEN A DEER ALL DAY AND WITH LACK OF DEER DO TO THE DCNR/PGC DEER ERADICATION PROGRAM,I BETTER SHOOT..UH OH, GUESS WHAT THAT WAS NOT A FAWN I SHOT, OH BOY, IT WAS HUNTER!! this is type of hunters you are seeing now also, they want meat do to lack of deer.. No data exists supporting the idea that that last half hour is any less safe than the first half hour. Or at least none has been presented other than opinions. ItIS a fact that the vast majority of states have hunting during that last half hour after sunset with no additional no safety problems. sunset. 21.3 % of all accidents were during a period of low light in the morning or evening. 12.8 % of all incidents occurred in the low light of dawn 6.4 % of all incidents occurred in the low light of evening 2.1 % of all incidents occurred in dark (morning or evening unknown) 27.7 % of all incidents were victim in line of fire when shot 23.4 % of all incidents were victim shot in mistake for game 51.1 % of all incidents involved one hunter shooting another hunter in either mistake for game of victim in the line of fire [ul][/ul]51.1 % were shot with a shotgun [ul][/ul]44.7 % were shot with a rifle [ul][/ul]2.1 % were shot with a muzzle loader [ul][/ul]2.1 % were shot with a bow [ul][/ul]39 % were hunting deer [ul][/ul]26 % were hunting small game [ul][/ul]23 % were hunting turkey [ul][/ul]2 % were hunting bear [ul][/ul] There are presently more accidents occurring in the low light of the time period before sunrise then there are in the low light of evening. Low light evening accidents are already making up about half as many incidents as the even lower light conditions as occur in the low light of morning even though the low light of evening hunting ends a half hour earlier then the low light of evening. Therefore, it would only seem logical that the number of accidents occurring in the low light of evening would increase to a higher number if we allowed hunters to hunt into even lower light conditions then already occur when shooting hours end in the evening. Since over half of all incidents are incidents where one hunter is shooting another hunter that they either didn’t see or had mistaken for game it is only logical to expect that number to increase if we allow more hunting time in low light conditions. As I said before, due to the close distances involved in archery hunting and safety record during that season I could support the half hour later for that season. I could not support the addition for firearms hunter other then perhaps an additional 15 minutes for flintlock muzzle loader season. Dick Bodenhorn as for gun, NO WAY i want some of people i see now shooting when they cant see well.. most are hunting to dark anyhow with bow, you cant hear it go off like a gun,so i think its really notbiggie to most bow hunters. like WCO said, if they make it in gun season, it should be mandatory if you are walking you must have light on your hat 360 degrees.. i use a red strobe light on my hat when i am walking into and out of woods now,they stick on your hat and are only a few dollars.. |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
Thanks for the stats RSB!
I understandyour pointabout the present disparity between morning and evening. I'll even agree that it makes even more sense for archery hunting but.Lets put a different perspective on the facts you just gave us..... I found these facts on the 2005 season on the PGC website: http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=461&q=168059 Hunting-Related Shooting Incidents SearchPennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency HomePrintable VersioneMail 2005 Incident Statistics 2005 Incident Statistics Fatal Non-Fatal Total Total Number of Incidents 3 44 47 INJURY TYPE SELF-INFLICTED 1 11 12 INFLICTED BY OTHERS 2 33 35 SPORTING ARM USED SHOTGUN 1 23 24 RIFLE 2 19 21 MUZZLELOADER 1 1 OTHER 1 1 SPECIES HUNTED DEER 2 16 18 TURKEY 11 11 SMALL GAME 12 12 WATERFOWL 1 1 2 BEAR 1 1 FURBEARER 1 1 OTHER 2 2 VICTIM AGE 12 - 15 YEARS 5 5 16 - 20 YEARS 5 5 21 - 50 YEARS 1 28 29 OVER 50 YEARS 2 6 8 OFFENDER AGE 12 - 15 YEARS 5 5 16 - 20 YEARS 5 5 21 - 50 YEARS 17 17 OVER 50 YEARS 2 7 9 NOT REPORTED 1 10 11 LIGHT CONDITIONS DAWN 6 6 DAYLIGHT 3 34 37 DUSK 3 3 DARK 1 1 WEATHER CONDITIONS CLEAR 1 26 27 OVERCAST 2 11 13 RAIN 5 5 FOG 2 2 CAUSE OF INCIDENT SPORTING ARM DANGEROUS POSITION 6 6 UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE 1 4 5 RICOCHET 4 4 STRAY SHOT 1 1 VICTIM IN LINE OF FIRE 2 12 14 HUNTER SLIPPED AND/OR FELL 3 3 HUNTER DROPPED SPORTING ARM 1 1 SHOT FOR GAME 11 11 SPORT ARM DEFECTIVE 1 1 OTHER 1 1 PLACE OF INCIDENT FIELD 1 12 13 WOODLAND 2 27 29 ROAD/HIGHWAY 5 5 COVER DENSE 15 15 LIGHT 3 29 32 VICTIM EXPERIENCE UNDER 2 YEARS 4 4 2 - 5 YEARS 6 6 6 - 10 YEARS 2 2 OVER 10 YEARS 3 32 35 OFFENDER EXPERIENCE UNDER 2 YEARS 1 5 6 2 - 5 YEARS 4 4 6 - 10 YEARS 4 4 OVER 10 YEARS 2 22 24 NOT REPORTED 9 9 OFFENDER EXPERIENCE HUNTING SPECIES UNDER 2 YEARS 1 6 7 2 - 5 YEARS 7 7 6 - 10 YEARS 4 4 OVER 10 YEARS 1 18 19 NOT REPORTED 1 9 10 DISTANCE BETWEEN VICTIM/OFFENDER MISTAKEN FOR GAME 0 - 25 FEET 1 1 26 - 75 FEET 2 2 76 - 150 FEET 7 7 151 - 300 FEET 1 1 COLOR WORN BY VICTIM MISTAKEN FOR GAME FL. ORANGE 2 2 CAMOUFLAGE 7 7 OTHER COLOR 1 1 NOT REPORTED 1 1 FLUORESCENT ORANGE VISIBLE TO OFFENDER? YES 2 2 VICTIM POSITION STANDING 1 22 23 WALKING/RUNNING 9 9 SITTING 1 8 9 IN VEHICLE 1 1 OTHER 1 4 5 VICTIM'S ACTIVITY HUNTING 3 39 42 OTHER 5 5 OFFENDER'S ACTIVITY HUNTING 3 40 43 UNKNOWN 4 4 CALIBER CENTERFIRE 1 16 17 RIMFIRE 2 2 BLACK POWDER 1 1 UNKNOWN 1 1 2 GAUGE 10 1 1 12 1 13 14 16 20 3 3 UNKNOWN 6 6 SHOT SIZE 2 1 1 4 2 2 5 4 4 6 4 4 00 3 3 7.5 1 1 BB 1 1 BBB 1 1 OTHER 1 1 UNKNOWN 6 6 These47 incidents represent 100% of the47 incidents reported during the period. Content Last Modified on 5/18/2006 7:54:51 AM SearchPennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency HomePrintable VersioneMail Using the last available stats lets just see how may extra accidents we might have at dusk.Since you didnt metion self inflicted shootings, lets leave them out for a moment. that leaves 35 "inflicted by others shootings" If the 6.4 % of that number doubles that would mean we could expect approximately 2 more incidents per year in the entire state out of almost a million hunters. No number of hunting accidents is acceptable but hunting has gotten safer and safer as the years have passed. I would think most hunters would accept that 1 in half a million better chance that they might be involved in a shooting incident in that half hour after sunset in return for getting to hunt that very productive time. The last time I read an article on hunting accidents versus other sports I beleive hunting was deemed to be a good bit safer than bowling. No activity is without risk, but the additional risk of that last half hour is worth the reward IMHO |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
Another question for you RSB
Since Turkey was the game involved in roughly one third of the shooting incidents and spring turkey is a morningonly event, that alone may account for some of the difference between the dawn and dusk incident rates. The info we have here makes it impossible to tell but the idea certainly makes some sense doesnt it? Do you have acces to the number of spring turkey incidents occuring between starting time and sunrise? |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
good info..when a hunter is shot by FRIEND or BUDDY,most times they will try to cover it up..
they will say,OH, IT WAS A RICHOCET,I DID NOT THINK HE WAS TURKEY ON DEER.. so, lets figure close to half that were shot that said it was a ricocetwere NOT richocet. so, figures are not 100% accurate..most WERE shot for looking like deer or turkey..but info does not show that.. |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter Another question for you RSB Since Turkey was the game involved in roughly one third of the shooting incidents and spring turkey is a morningonly event, that alone may account for some of the difference between the dawn and dusk incident rates. The info we have here makes it impossible to tell but the idea certainly makes some sense doesnt it? Do you have acces to the number of spring turkey incidents occuring between starting time and sunrise? I agree that no one really knows just what affect adding another half hour to the end of the shooting hours would have on the hunter safety statistics. All we can do is speculate on the affects based on our own experiences, the statistical data available and some educated theories. However, since you brought up the need to remove the self-inflicted shooting incidents from the equation I thought I would go ahead and do that. I agree that you can remove the self-inflicted gunshot wounds from the equation since they certainly didn’t shot them selves in mistake for game or because they were in the line of fire of something they were shooting. If you remove the self inflicted injuries you are down to 35 hunters being shot by another hunter. That means that 37.1 % of the inflicted by other accidents were victim in the line of fire incidents and that 31.4 % of the inflicted by other incidents were when one hunter shot another in mistake for game. Those two factors mean that about 71.4 % of the time when one hunter shot another it was from either not seeing the other hunter or seeing them and thinking they were a legal animal they were hunting for. I have to think the number of such incidents would increase if we allow gun hunters to hunt later into the evening. I would encourage everyone to go out, when there is no snow on the ground and see how dark it is at one half hour after sunset. Have someone put on an orange vest and hat and see how close they have to be before you can see the orange. Then come back and tell me you think the number of hunter related shooting incidents wouldn’t increase during that last hour of the day. Dick Bodenhorn |
RE: PA Hunting hours what is the PGC staff thinking?
thats why when i go into woods in morning or out at night, i put a red flashing light on my hat..hunters i see laugh at me but i am seeing too many goof balls in woods that are trigger happy to get adoe..
heck, they are shooting people for turkey and they can see, just think what it will be like if they can shoot a doe or fawn in dark.. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:32 AM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.