RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

I know what he is about!!!!

With any luck, more and morewill become aware of his shortcomings and be able to make that same statement. It will be a great day for deer management in PA, when that comes to pass.

:)

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Many of us have been waitng for "a great day for deer management in PA" for several years running. The PGC hasn't provided that. Gary Alt hasn't provided that either. Perhaps Slinsky should be given a chance. After all, anything would be an improvement considering what we're left with after all the slaughter.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

I think January 10 2007 was a great day for deer management in PA.



It's all uphill from here for Slinsky, Levengood, Bolgiano and all the poor misguided USP souls. Their noisy distractionshavent been completely turned off, but the volume dial has been turned WAY down. Hopefully the PGC can now direct their energies into solving the real problems with PA deer management.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Perhaps Slinsky should be given a chance. After all, anything would be an improvement considering what we're left with after all the slaughter.

Has he made any great strides yet in the credibility department, since that timehe wroteto Ted Williams the outdoor writer, thinking hewas Ted Williams the deceasedBoston Red Sox great? Didn't think so.

:)

Perhaps he should just stick to inflaming those who cannot comprehend basic wildlife management and convincing them in the process,to sue anyone that disagrees with them?

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Interesting statement BT, "Hopefully the PGC can now direct their energies into solving the real problems with PA deer management."but I have to ask if they now can direct their energies into solving the real problems, that they created themselves by driving the agency into near bankrupticy, how much further will the cuts in service and programs be? They've done a bang up job of ruining things as it is.

The deer herd in a complete mess.

The Pheasant program cut in half.

Commissioner Hill stating that if any more cuts are to be done they will be the Pheasant program and no new Game Wardens. (Will the Youth Pheasant Hunt be cut also?)

The agency still does not meet their stated goal of 1 % timbering and now we hear that Forest Certification has not produced any significant gain in timber profits.

The PGC is now about to back a bill to allow burning. If they do it means that the deer were never the real problem in the first place.

The reality is that the agency is terribly mismanaged.

The solution to solving the real problems facing the agency is a full scale house cleaning of the Executive staff and replacing them with competent people, something that has been wispered by a few legislators.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Crazyhorse,your spin never stops.
1.The habitat situation is a mess not the deer program.
2.Pheasants are put and take.Anyone that wants or expects to shoot a farm raised,tame bird can go to a preserve.
3.Our game lands are not certified.
4.Do you even know what the benefits of burning would be?No it isn't to keep the deer at bay from pawing up the trees.In no way would it mean that deer were never an issue.You're too much.You complain about everything the PGC does.When they back something you want,you still find something to criticize.

The PGC did not bankrupt themselves.They haven't had a fee increase in over 9 years yet their overhead keeps going up.Yeah,that's horrible mismanagement.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

sproul,The dog hunting was presented to the PANWTF as an idea.There's a small group of hunters named "american wild turkey hunting dog association" pushing to have this legalized.The idea didn't come from the PGC.
For the record I support this as much as I do all day hunting in the spring.
Notta

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Pretty easy to see how fast the spinning gets out of control among the conspitacy theorists Rich.If it's a bad idea,it must have come from the PGC.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

In my opinion Doug it sure is a bad idea but definately didn't come from the PGC.
I hope the PANWTF and PGC both reject this.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

I think your only partially right on this issue. They have had to make cuts, most of them unpopular ones, but hunters complaining to legislators is what drove them to their financial troubles. They aren't allowed a licence increase by the state, so its their mess as well. We all helped create the current mess not just the PGC like you always calim. There's alot of blame to go around.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

The PGC has a full time lobbiest who brags of his inside connections with legislators.Obviously he must not be doing a very good job because the agency has been denied a license increase for a few years running. Didn't the PGC lobbiest present a good case for the agency?

Commissioner Isabella also has said that he talks to legislators who dislike the USP, yet still no license increase for the PGC.

What's a body to believe?

Doug, you also with the same tired spin. I guess that makes us alike.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Never mind crazy you were talking to DougE obviously

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

The GC had something like a 6.1 million or so surplus of income to obligations last fiscal year. How is this near bankrupt? Alot of major cities and states have less surplus than that at the end of the year. Timber sales were something like 12 million or so. These are rough numbers from memory, so cut me a break stat quoters.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

OOOPS!
Timber sales were 16.4 million. Sorry.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

If every hunter bought a Game News subscription, we would be flush with money. Maybe we should do the GC a favor (and ourselves) and start a movement to boost Game News subscriptions.
I'm making that motion!
Do I hear a second?

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Already have aGame Newssubscription, plus our sportsmen's club ponied-up for five or six subscriptions to area school librarieswhen the PGC dropped their free issues dealafter budget cuts startedtwo years ago. But it would be a good idea for morehunters to receive the Game News. It's better than ever, in my opinion.

As for that budget surplus someone mentioned, they normally carry a surplus in the "game fund" to operate on, until the next major influx of money comes in during license renewals each year. Back in '98 when they were after the license fees we have now, they explained to theHouse Game and Fisheries Comm. that this surplus would continually get smaller unless another license increase was granted within five or six years. That would've meant another increase back in about 2005 at the latest.

People that pay some attention to such things, would realize thatoperating costs like salaries, retirements, insurance and operating costs for vehicles have gone up considerably since 1998. The PGC has little if any control over those costs, but they make an easy target to exploit as "poor management", if people don't understand these basic truths.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

As in any budget, there will be fluctuations or down years. When these things become problematic, adjustments are made. The GC bashers see any downturn as a sign of impending doom. A license fee hike will come. Nothing really wrong with that, it's just simple economics. In addition to the surplus this year, they still have a carryover surplus from past years that they draw interest income from, which was over 2.7 million this year alone.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

I have a great idea for all u PGC critics.
Quit hunting!!!,You say there are no deer anyway.
I'll paymore to hunt and won't complain and probably will have more hunting opportunity.
The PGC can do the burns,logging and continue to move forwardto IMPROVE the habitat and deer quality. Those of us who understand what the PGC is trying to accomplish will benefit in the long run.

If you're not part of the solution,you're part of the problem.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Income exceeded expenditures by roughly $11.4 mllion last year.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Neville..
Where did you get that info?
I came up with a 6.1 million surplus.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Crazyhorse,you mentioned the agency and timber certification in the same subject.That's a spin to make people think the PGC gives a rat's behind about forest certification.Anyone with your inside USP connections should know that are game lands aren't certified.Then again,you guys think deer are pawing up the trees and mountain lions are reaking havoc on the deer population.

You then complain about cuts in the tame pheasant stocking program.You want more tame ditch chickens that are easy to hunt but you don't want to pay for them.Unbelievable.

You constantly harp on the deer management program and complain about the lack of deer.While you're at it,you saythe deer didn't damage the habitat.It must be the acid rain and lack of fires.Take a trip out here and I'll prove to you that oaks grow just fine insoil with a ph between 4-5.I'll also take you to some areaswhere controlled burns have been utilized.Those burns knock back the non preffered browse species like striped maple,birch and beech giving the oaks a chance to competebut the deer are still a primary factor.All of these things havebeen proven and documented over and over again.You can spin things any way you want but we had too dam many deer in this state for way too long.The facts prove it and they're very easy to see for anyone that wants to learn what the truth is.The constantspinningfrom the Unified spikeshooters of Pa is humerousbut eventually has the same effect as a 3 year old sitting in the back seat ,asking if we're there yet for themillionth time.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Having a surplus now explains one of the reasonswhy the legislature is reluctant to approve a license fee increase.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Archer58,it's a fact that we'll be losing alot of hunters over the next several years.Demographics is the biggest reason along with the fact that we have less deer and there's more distractions for young hunters.Fortunately,for those that stick it out with a positive attitude,the opportunites will be endless.I saw things bottom out around here about 2 years ago but the situation has gotten steadily better since then.The habitat is getting better,which helps all game species,there's far less hunters on public land and there's still plenty of deer with ample opportunities and seasons to hunt them.I would hardly call our deer management program a joke.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

DougF (dce) you really need to calm down. Your constant spewing of venom and name calling, disparaging sportsmen's organizations and the like will only result in the moderator giving you a warning. We wouldn't want to see you banned for infracting the rules. Your one of USP's better promotors.

I think you should hunt some of the deer depopulated areas of Pennsylvania so you can fully understand what other hunters face and experience. You've been hunting that Treasure Island honey hole and been fortunate to be able to obtain access to private land. You need to travel a bit more and see how other hunters in North Central and North East PA see things.

The fact that PA had too many deer for too long only proves my point of poor management on the part of the agency. Keep in mind that many of the executive managers of today were the managers of that period also. They did nothing then and should certainly bear some of the responsibility for those conditions as they should also be responsible for the disparity in deer numbers in vast areas of the state now.

Management is everything in todays world. By the way, has Gary Alt been hired by any other Game Management group? I can only wonder why not.

By the way, how many acres were timbered this past fiscal year?

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Crazyhorse,you have no idea what you're talking about.This was the first year Treasure lake was open to hunting.I do 90% of my huntingon publicland in 2G.These are the same areas where they hold "save the deer" meetings because hunters complain there's no deer.Every year,I find and harvest deer on these public areas.The only areas I hunt around here that are not public are either game-farm co-ops or land owned by timber companies which are open to any one.Once again,your spin continues.Take away the the 3 deer I killed in Treasure lake and I still killed 2 more on public land and one more in 3B.the deer I killed in 3B was on private unposted land that gets hammered alot worse than any state land in this part of the state.You simply have no idea what you're talking about.I travel to several places every year to hunt.I scout ahead of time and hunt where there's food and cover.It's actually very easy to find and kill deer on the Moshannon state forest because the habitat is so poor throughout most of it.All you have to do is key in onthe few places that actually have some habitat and you'll find deer.I hunt Elk state forest every year late in the season and see plenty of deer and kill my share.Last year,I saw more deer in one day up there than I've seen in years any place else.Before I went up there,people told me not to waste my time because there wasn't any deer.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

I agree. I was incorrect.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Crazyhorse,Herd reductions should have happened along time ago but the past commissioners didn't take the advice of the foresters and biologists.We're paying for that right now in terms of degraded habitat.You're spinning this point also.Were you asking for more antlerless allocations back then or were you at some of the tag burning parties?Something tells me you weren't lobbying the PGC for more tags.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Doug i have not seen a decrease in hunter numbers on public land in my area. so you dont make this statement for statewide but just the areas you hunt, right?

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Yes,I do make that statement for the areas where I hunt.I saw three hunters all season long on public land in three different counties of 2G.I'm talking about guys actually in the woods hunting,not roadhunters.On the first day of bear,I loads of hunters in one area but nota soul during archery,muzzleloader or either saturday of rifle season.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

man i kinda wish that was like that around here. ive seen hunters everyday out in gun season and almost every time out in bow season around here. and also back in hunting,this is not the road hunters cause i would have no idea they are there since im not near it.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Head north just over I80 and you'll have the woods to yourself after the first day.I imagine the public lands will get hit alot harder the closer you are to Altoona.2G is over 40% public land,much of it being remote and rugged but there's still plenty of deer to be found without having to walk for miles.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Fat Lady may have sung, butCol. S and the roadshow company are stillon the march:

"Unified Sportsmen visit Bradford County

On Friday evening, Feb. x, 2007, at 7 P.M. at the Ulster Fire Hall, Jxx Sxxxxxx, representing the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, will present a program for the sportsmen of Northeast Pa. regarding the Game Commission's "Deer Management Program." Sxxxxxx is the host and producer of the "Oxxxxxx Txxx Nxxxxxx", a nationally syndicated, outdoor radio program and a well-known outdoor columnist. The Ulster Fire Hall is located behind the large Dandy Mini-Mart on Main St. (Rt. 220). Coming north on Rt. 220, turn right at the time & temperature sign and going south, turn left at the time and temperature sign. For more information, call Txx Kxxx at 570-xxx-xxx."

Sure hope someone in the audience doesn't spoil the combination enlightenment/membership recruitment tourspiel, by asking themwhat happened during their court foray. Wonder how a guy whohas always claimed no affiliation with this group, gets to represent them in public forums/membership drives?

Sounds almost like some sortaconspiracy isafoot.

:)

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

I can easily make that statement for the entire ANF as well as SGL 24, Buzzard Swamp and all of the Kane Hardwood property (always open to the public) in the ANF area

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Maybe you can have one of your friends in the PGC look up my harvest report cards.That info is available.I know it's been years since you sent one in John.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

BT in no way am i calling you and Doug liars about not seeing many hunters. im sure its true.. im saying in my area puplic land gets hunted very hard all season.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

You have to remember that thre's thousands and thousands of acres of public land around here and a relatively small human population.There's no way hunters can have that much of an impact on the herd around here.Most camps are emty during deer season and it's rare to see another hunter after the first two days.Like I said,I'm sure that isn't the same situation you see around Alttona where there's more people and less public land.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

It all depends where you hunt.Most of the NC has less hunters today.On the other hand the SGL's near my home are absolutely packed in rifle season.Orange everywhere.I wouldn't even think about hunting that place!

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Less hunters in deer season that is.As for turkey and bear I'm seeing more hunters then before in the NC.

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

What does this have to do with the Fat Lady?? The Topic

RE: The fat lady has sung in PA
 

Don't bring my mother in law in to this.These personal attacks have to stop.