Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

This was the title of an article in the local paper Morgantown. Here is a qoute. "Paul Johansen, AssistantChief of Wildlife for WVDNR, told me that one of the main objectives of the deer management plan in West Virginia is to provide a diversity of deer hunting opportunities for the hunters. He said some people don't care about shooting a buck. The only thing they want to doe is kill a deer." I really hate to read this, I wonder why they can't let these people shoot a doe.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Monongahlia County was one of the top ten counties, as far as buck kills went, so I don't understand that article.... as for ARs, this state needs them, and should follow other states' who have sucessfully implemented that policy.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

IMO, maximizing a hunters options is a good thing. Restrictions do exactly what the word means. It restricts a hunters options and clearly, if the goal is to maximize the "diversity of deer hunting opportunities",is counterproductive. The way it is now if a 4 point walks under the guy who's not interested in participating in the "let em go so they can grow" philosopphy he has the option of shooting it. If a 4 point walks under the guy who feels that's what it's all about then he has the option of passing. What could be more fair, or more republican (little r)? As more and more hunters adopt and apply AR out of personal choice it will become the reality of the state by default but at the same time keeping the diversity of options open for all. I applaud Mr. Johansen's position.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Indiana's DNR has a similar deer management philosophy , though they say that they manage our herd for maximum opportunity for all , not just hunters . We consistantly rank very high in both P&Y and B&C , antler restrictions had nothing to do with it since we don't have them .

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

your rankings have more to do with the habitat and genes(and the ability to live past the 1st hunting season), more than about ARs or anything else. as the competition gets more intense for available lands,private and public...the pressure to harvest the 1st "legal" buck will be greater, should you want to be successful for that year.. I've let 4 pts walk(hopefully to mature) only to hear a gunshot 200 yds down the trail he was taking... for the most part, hunters wanna kill a deer regardless of horn-size, but that makes way for poor quality bucks overall.for those who decide to persue better racked bucks, the odds of going empty are increasing.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I hunt in WV and I do not want antler restrictions. I would not oppose smaller bag limits on bucks as in OH or KY, but antler restrictions are joke if you ask me.

What's the point?

I would also like to see WV extend the season into Jan.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I know one thing. I hunted WV for many years. And I won't go back to the typical scrub buck gun hunting. I would rather go down to my hometown and go in the bowhunting zones where they let em grow little more. Mingo county that is.

At least in MD, I see about 3 does for ever buck. In WV, I would rarely see a buck gun hunting. Management long term works.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

They can usually shoot a doe now during buck season as well. but you're right Rem, It's amazing how many WV hunteres would rather kill their their 25th 3-pointer then an a nice fat doe. Funny when you think about it:DOh well, at least their having fun

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I am not going to disagree that many WV counties are know for smaller bucks........i would not call them "scrub".......but small non the less. I am just not convinced that AR's are the answer. Why not reduce the buck bag limits and force people to kill more does?

There are no antler restrictions in the Mingo/Logan/WyomingCo but yet the bucks are huge int hat area because less are killed due to the bow only restriction.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Anyway possible just to let the little bucks grow would help out greatly. Antler restrictions is one option, not sure about the doe reduction in that area. That works in certain regions where food is not plentiful enough like suberbs of MD for instance, but for Southern WV/Eastern Ky, not sure if that model works the same.

Why would you not like to see AR in WV? I have a buddy I hunt with in MD, who is from Pineville, and every year he takes snaggly 3 points and stuff from Pendleton county. He doesn't even like deer meat. I guess so he can say he got a deer. I asked him, wouldn't you be happier to get a nice basket 6 or 8. Of course he would, but his idea is, "there is very few basket 6 or 8's in that area", so if he doesn't shoot em somebody will.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Let me say that I am against mandated AR's.

First off, we manage our camp for larger bucks. AND...
Last I checked...I paid for my land. It's MINE..AND...I am sick and tired of worrying about our neighbors that shoot every single spike that they see.

BUT...if I see a spike that I feel needs to be "culled" from the herd, I want that option. On second thought...It's buck season, and a spike is a buck.

Also, what about the "meat" hunters. Right now in our county (Braxton) we cannot shoot does with a gun outside of the doe season. Do the "gun" hunters have to go deerless because of the regulations? I personaly have no problem with this, because I hunt all seasons....but what about those that don't and are spending close to $200?

Here are 2 big complaints of mine..

1. 90% of the bucks harvested during the year are during gun season....with a large % of them being out-of-state hunters. If they harvest 2 small 8-points...and no does...then they are hurting the herd terribly, as far as mature bucksgo. Many parts of the state allow no taking of does at all with a gun...my county included.

2. GO TO A 1 BUCK LIMIT! Ohio does it...and so do many of the other states. The 3 buck limit is a joke. If a fellow kills 3-8pt's, then he has hurt the herd in his area for years to come.

All this said, I want to set someinput from you guys.Of the last 15 bucks I've killed, only 1 or 2 would have not qualified for AR's. BUT.........I still don't like being told that buck is a buck.

1 buck limit.

Just my opinion

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

AR here in pa.is HALF working..we like it but it will fail unless things change..

hunters are disgusting now in pa..real sportsmen are showing their colors..

meat hunters are shooting the FAWNS.. button bucks are being killed..

kidsare allowed to shoot the small bucks ..adults are carrying or using the kids tags and are shooting at any buck as long as someone in gang has kids tag available..they dont look for 3 points as long as kids tags are available..
i saw kids buying licenses this year, girls with dads and said, THIS IS STUPID, I AINT GOING HUNTING ANYHOW!!dad said,SHUT UP AND SIGN IT!!
this is going to ruin AR ..its not going to work unless things change..

it should be 3 points to side for ALL..then you have this stupid rule IF YOU SHOOT A BUCK BY MISTAKE, YOU PAY A 25 DOLLAR FINE AND GET TO KEEP DEER..

can you believe that one..i like AR but if the outlaws can keep using others tags and meat hunters shoot button bucks, its not going to work..

i only saw 3 fawns this year in a 20 mile area..i used to see 50..

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

we have 2 weeks of doe/buck,wqe used to be 2 weeks of buck only and 3 days of doe here in pa..

doe in wmu2g are close to being wiped out..thats what our great PGC/DCNR want..

i used too see in 20 mile area,100 deer easy, now, its about 20..you are very lucky to even see a fawn now..

they started this early muzzleloader season for a week in oct..its wiping out doe, thats what state of pa wants..

sad i have lived to see this happen..i blame HUNTERS for this also, they dont have to shoot a FAWN or small doe,but i am finding out that meat is all most want now..very sad..

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

sproulman...Sadly, I have heard many PA folks say the same thing that you say. A guy I work with has a camp in Bradford area...and he said they used to drive around at night and see 300 deer, easy. Now they are excited when they see one.

I don't want to see the deer wiped out, obviously. I would like to see WV go to a 4 deer total kill...with 1 of those being a buck. I know it's drastic, but Ohio, where I live, has a 2 or 3 deer limit (depending on area) and only 1 can be antlered. (Some areas have a 1 deer limit)

I understand that Ohio and WV are totally different....but each year the kill in OH is steady, and the WV kill is all over the place. This year in OH, they were afraid of a small kill, so they added an extra weekend of gun season a week after the normal gun season. (It was added well before season) There were 25,000+ deer killed in those 2 days. That brought the total to almost exactly what they wanted. The numbers that they wanted killed were published before season....Tell me that someone doesn't know what they're doing at the Ohio DNR.

It'll never happen in WV....There are too many hunters that "have" to kill a bunch of deer. At least that's my opinion.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

...if someone has $200 to spend on hunting license...then he'd be better off buying a half a steer if he's "meat" hunting and needs food. the comment about the hunters showing their true colors makes me giggle... it seems as tho our sport isn't as imune to such pathetic acts as we wanna think....
the biggest problem facing the deer herds is mans' encroachment upon it's needed habitat...deer are being ever "pocketed" by growth in the Eastern part of the state. Hampshire Co. ALWAYS stayed in the top 5 kill counties, for years, but no more....not even top 10. why? growth and destruction.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

i agree 110% with sproulman. PA and WV are somewhat pretty similar states when it comes to hunting. both states were overrun with deer and mismanaged for way to long with way to many guys looking to put spikes on the wall. nature typically births 1:1..hunters need to take 1:1...if states in such bad shape COULD go back and know what the future would loook like m sure they would regulated it from the start...way back.

but now things are so screwed up it aint funny. i went 4 or 5 years of hunting before i seen horns PERIOD. hunted HARD..seen lots of deer. first year of ARs i was 15..i COULD take ANY buck..but the buck i seen and killed that year WAS AR legal..now the deer herd is lacking(AR) EVEN in my area of 2B which is a special reg area which is supposedly overrun with deer..but thats only in heavily populated places(people pops not deer) not farmland where i hunt.

sproulman is 100% correct..ARs would work and would work pretty good and quick if EVERYONE played by the rules. that aint so..exspecially in PA with over 1million hunters..kids, disabled and military can take ANY buck. now.....im all for them folks being able to kill a deer...why not gaurentee them doe tags where they wish to hunt? these folks will be just as happy with a doe as they will with a small buck...and somehow control the illegal kills. theres WAY more illegal kills then the game commission thinks. you cant tell me all them little bucks i see every year were killed by the special reg hunters(youth disabled and military) and you cant tell me all them 1.5yr old bucks are just TOO smart to be seen. we dont even see them spotting!

HR also decimated the herd and buck numbers...but when you got doe hunters BBs WILL be killed. some guys dont know how to tell. sometimes its tough to tell.

alot of PA hunters are upset...the PGC is hurting for money..if these guys quit hunting they will be REALLY hurting for money...DUH..something needs done....PA needs to wake up. people dont like to change! im not saying GO BACK...but results need to be seen...and the herd needs to grow in a bunch of areas or hunters wont HUNT...

WV.....dont be sad...ALOT of PA hunters are rather upset. some are happy but youve all read our posts...ARs with NO special restrictions and no illegal takers would be awesome...youd see results pretty quick...but that aint the case in reality..

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

What would the restrictions be?

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

ash...I was looking at 3 or 4pts on one side. Just speculating....

And, as someone who has hunted PA and WV...I think that they are worlds apart when it comes to hunting. PA has a million hunters during gun season (at least that's what I've read a hundred times) and we have NO-ONE (to speak of) hunting in our area anymore. It's rare for us to see a hunter while in the woods, and we are in a remote area,20 miles or so from the closest town. We used to see a ton of hunters. Now all we see are lazy a$$es on 4-wheelers riding around hoping for a 10-pt to jump out.

I'm also speaking from a Central WV area, as I know nothing about the eastern part of the state.

Maybe some zone-type laws would help WV.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I just not convinced that is the answer. I hunt in Wirt co and there ar loads of deer there. There are plenty of scraggly spikes and 3 points that are young, but there are also 3 and 4 year old deer that are still spikes and fork horns. Under an AR, these deer would continue to walk and breed. If we just limit the number of bucks that are allowed, some people will kill the scragglers and alot more does will be taken out.

Are you from WV bigcountry?

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I agree I also do not see the hunters I used to. I just wish something could be done to give our area a little better chance for larger racked bucks.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I can only speak for the farm I hunt in Dodd. Co., AR's have worked so far for us. This was our 6th year & it's getting better every year. This year we killed 6 bucks the 1st day, smallest being a 6pt. Including archery season a 7 buck total for the year. Our antlerless total was 12.
I myself don't see AR's being implemented on a statewide basis, it's going to be up to the individual hunter to do that. I would like to see a 1 buck limit, that would help alot. As for the number of hunters, that to me has dropped off. There are alot of hunters going to Ohio & Pa. now days, more so than most could imagine. I live in Harrison Co. and would like to know the number of hunters going to Ohio, I know of 20 some in just the ones that I personally know.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I wish I had enough land to try and do a littleAR myself but unfortunately I don't.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Ash...It takes a ton of land. I would estimate that you need in excess of 1,000 acres to do any good with AR's. Here's my logic...

We watch bucks all summer and early fall. We know a good bit of the bucks on our place. When the rut comes.....they're gone. My uncle owns a place a couple miles away, and they've killed bucks at their farm that we've watched all summer. That's how much they've moved.

The deer move so much during the rut and hunting season that I've learned that all I'm doing is letting bucks grow up so someone else can shoot them.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

1,000 acres would be ideal, we have approx. 425, give or take a few. One of the bigger obstacles we had to overcome other than the neighbors shooting what we let go for the 1st 2 or 3 years, was keeping the deer in our hunting area or close to it.
We had a biologist come & look at our property, one of the 1st things he noticed was that we had a "pretty woods" and that "pretty woods don't hold too many deer for long. They will pass through, but as for bedding & such wasn't such a good thing. So we timbered only the mature trees & let the brush grow. Had the loggers doze out a couple of large areas for food plots. It has helped a whole bunch.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

i like to take time to thank everyone on here for nice words etc..this is best place to tell TRUTH and not be slandered..

back to AR..we are seeing bigger bucks on publicland BUT less deer..hunters are killing button bucks..kids are killing little bucks and a lot of hunters are using kids tags,in crews, to shot ANY BUCK..

we go back to hunters..if hunters would go by book, i know that many of those spike bucks and button bucks would have made it through to next year..

this is why i feel that it should be 3 points to side for all of us,kids, disabled, military..

then AR could be something to see..BUT if hunters continue to shoot at tails of deer,fawns /button bucks dont stand a chance..

that is what i am seeing..funny, 2 of hunters i saw with fawns this year said to me, SPROUL, IT WAS RUNNING AND IT LOOKED BIGGER..

no sportsman would shoot a running FAWN..no sportsman would KILL a fawn..

is our future in danger, you bet..

i have good friend in wisconsin..he told me about the deer they had there 20 years ago..now, he said if you see deer, its something to see..

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

The future of hunting may be in danger but no way is it in danger because of lack of whitetail deer.

Misjudgement can happen to the finest sportsman, never mind the fact that some have no problem with shooting small deer/fawn if it suits there purposes. If one of my friends or I happen to shoot a button buck for a doe, we don't cry about it, we just say "dam" then move on with our lives. It's when hunters can see that a deer has got "small forks" and shoots them as their 25th "forkhorn" as opposed to big fat doe (or even mistaken button buck)that makes me wonder "why?"

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

hillbilly, only time i made mistake was at 12 years old..maybe some did not have dad like i did, so they did not get chance to grow up way i did..

for adult to shoot a fawn,i cannot understand but, i am raised different..

without fawns, future in your hunting area will not be good..i am seeing this now where i hunt..

others all seeing it also..

as for AR,it will work as long as you folk, let fawns and the small buck live..

if you do, you will have something to be very proud of, a nice mature 6 or 8 point buck..

problem with pa.its only half working and could fail, if hunters dont stop shooting fawns and small bucks..

people say,OH KID IS HAPPY WITH A SMALL DOE.. give me a break..hell, i was kid too..

you look at face of kid with buck, a nice buck and then tell me he is excited about a small fawn or doe..

if we went to school and said,I SHOT A NICE BUTTON BUCK,you would be STONED to death..

now, PGC wants to make a kid into a great hunter with hunting doe all their life..

well, i am OLD SCHOOL, never was i raised to be proud of killing a doe after i was 12 years old..

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

That sure is sad to hear. I've killed many an"ol doe" and been proud to do it and had lots of fun doin' it.



:Dwell we don't look to go out and slaughter all the baby deer like an Egyptian Pharoah would, but the occasional one won't hurt anything and will actually have the lowest impact on overall herd numbers (as immature deer have the greatest chance of death anyway)



So was I, and hell, I was happy with a few rabbits or squirrels (not because I was starving), so why wouldn't I be happy with an ol doe?

I am even more happy when some nice youngster gets a big ol doe bigger than they are:D

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Wvparker...I also own give or take 420 acres. I find it impossible to manage deer on that small a piece of property in the mountainous land of WV.

I'm not arguing with you....just wondering how you do it. If we spook a single deer, it's off our property. We cannot keep rutting bucks in our area, and we have lazy hunters on 4 wheelers spooking deer on our boudarys.

It seems impossbile for us to manage them....and we've tried for at least 10 years. We've killed some big bucks now and them, but all in all I see little advancement.

Just my opinion, and not an argument.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Pro-Line, the deer run off our property also, but they seem to return sooner or later. But now when they run off they aren't being blasted as often as they once were. The timbering & food plots seem to be keeping them around. In the area we are there wasn't hardly any good grass at all, everything was all grown up fields. We may now have around 10 or so total acres of good grass that seems to attract & keep them in the area very well.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I live in wv and have always hunted here and our dnr is all about the money restrict the number of deer you can kill ok then they raise the prices on everything for one thing they dont need a doe season period thats what hurt the deer herd and the number of bucks inthose countys if their is a doe season then its either sex for muzzleloading also so 5000 people kill a doe in doe co then 20,000 people kill does with a muzzle loader and better than half of them are button bucks BINGO deer herd down and buck population down state wide i hunt mcdowell and wyoming co here also the deer get bigger cause they live longer small bucks dont get shot because everybody knows whats down there and they wait we need a better management but there gonna do what they want rafters have always come first so just kill what ever or join a good club and start your own program thats what we did good luck to all and be safe

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

ANTLER RESTRICTIONS here in pa. are working..we are seeing bigger and nicer bucks BUT i am also seeing end to it..i like AR..

why?because hunters are shooting fawns which are your future bucks..also the kids can shoot little bucks..this should be stopped as i feel a lot of kids ARE NOT shooting the little bucks anyhow..who is?

the ADULT HUNTERS using kids tags..i hate that part of law..it should be 3 points to side for all..

the HR or HERD REDUCTION has been disaster here in wmu2g of pa..there are areas that have no deer at all and others, 4 deer in a mile..these areas used to have 30 deer i mile..

i dont want deer behind every tree but would be nice to see a deer..

years ago we had HUNTERS,now, we have hunters that shoot at tails of deer and shoot fawns..then the predators we have here in pa. ,yotes are all over wmu2g..

AR will only work if the doe/fawns are not shot off as is being done in pa..we would NEVER shoot a fawn even if i was 12 years old..you would be laughed out of school..now, hunters put fawn on the roof of car and show it off..

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

have you seen good results or is it too early to tell? The property that we have would benefit from itgreatly, but we can't seem to get organized enough to implement them. Several of the guys out there still shoot any buck they see and sometimes it's tough to deal with. Mostly, those guys (the ones I know/hunt around), thathave no personal A/R limits:D;), are from families that have been hunting the same way for generations, which is fine, but it's not the way to gain larger bucks overall

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

trust ole sproul,AR will be best thing in wv you have seen in years BUT ,if hunters shoot FAWNS and adults shoot the little bucks and put the KIDS tags on deer,it will not work in long run..

i am all for kid shooting a smaller buck to keep him/her interested BUT i think most of small bucks are being shot by adults and putting a kids tag on deer..

so, as usual, HUNTERS are ruining what could be a great thing for pa. and wv..this is why NOW, i feel it should be 3 points to 1 side FOR EVERYONE, kids included..

this is only way to stop tags of kids being used by adults to shoot buck that are not legal on 3 point rule....

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

Actually ole Sproul,
AR has NOT been officially implemented in WV, so the hunters in WV haven't started ruining anything (formally) yet. I understand that you PA guys probably don't have enough "threads" to comment on in this forum, but please stay with the topic. This one, by rare chance,happens to be about WV.[8D]:D[8D]

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

WV needs some type of restriction.id prefer the 1 buck and 2-3 doe set up like OH has.....but something.whether its point restrictions,spread restrictions(which was placed in alot of WMA's in WV this year) or the 1 buck limit.....

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I think WV really needs to change the way it manages the herd overall and I think it may be changing slightly for the better. One thing I sincerely believe is that the deer herd needs to be "micro-managed". By that I mean that WV should divide the state into many geographical areaswith the ability to have their own "special regulations" if neccesaryin order to manage the entire herd successfully. To me, the current"deer situation" in one area of this state may vary a lot from another. Although both places I hunt have healthy deer, the average age between the two is not the same.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

It would also be nice to have some more "special weapons areas" in specific WMAs throughout the state. There are some but it would be nice to see a lot more

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

I still think that a 1 or 2 buck limit with a 2 or 3 doe limit would accomodate most of the state.

I like breaking the state into regions, but the regs are confusing as hell now...maybe they should look north and west at Ohio and take notes.

We have 3 regions, and they have rules for the regions. I would love to see that. I personally think that AR's aren't the total answer. The states with the biggest bucks don't have AR's...granted they have better conditions...but they have a 1 buck limit.

Shooting a 2 1/2 yr old 8-pt isn't helping anything...if you kill 3 of them. Shootinga single1-1/2 yr old fork is better on the herd than shooting 3 young "AR" bucks. Those big 'ol bucks aren't just going to jump out at ya. LOL Just my opinion.

RE: Don't expect any antler restrictions in WV
 

the neighbors did a doe drive on all properties surrounding the camp(except 1 farm).... total take was 13 doe..... they thought they done something good.... it's pathetic...the owner of the farm said if they dropped a doe or hunted on his place, he was droppin' them ! ...they stayed off....:D