RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Yes that comment does sound a bit odd. I think that crosbows benefit as much as muzzleloader seasons benefit those that like to muzzleload and bow benefits bowhunters - it would allow those that enjoy hunting with a crossbow an opportunity to do so. I started bow hunting and muzzleloading for extra opportunities to get in the woods and more possibilities to get a deer. don't think i'd go out and get a crossbow, but never now. It could alos benefit the NY Conservation Fund by having another source of income (separate license fee). I really think it could have a place and wouldn't adversely affect anything. However, I also think it needs its own season - say in conjunction with ML or a section concurrent with reg bow (maybe first 3-5 days). What could it hurt? Iknow this isn't a crossbow thread but just my $.02.

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Well, although it isn't a "crossbow" thread, it does say Ohio Regs in NY, and crossbows have been a part of Ohio hunting for over 20 years, so, it is pertinent.

Advantages crossbow bring - allows former bowhunters now physically unable to comfortably hunt archery season to do so, retunring them to the woods. THese same folks are now entering an age where their kids are old enough to hunt. Is it not easier to introduce a youth to bowhunting by taking him or her bowhunting? Women, elderly and youth find working with a crossbow less intimidating than vertical equipment. The biggest intimidating factor is being able to draw, IMHO. I, too, believe a compromise is in order, and I would like to see the following:

[ul][*]ADD another week on the front end of archery season[*]ADD crossbow use for anyone who wishes to choose using a crossbow, starting the last TWO WEEKS of early archery, all of regular season, and all of extended.[*]ADD a new license tag to purchase, crossbow stamp (tag, license, whatever), but it requires the Bowhunting stamp or education class to secure[/ul]

Are crossbows an advantage? Depends on the situation. It is irresponsible to blanket state any implement has an advantage over another (firearms over bows notwithstanding). A shotgun has advantages over the rifle when in close quarters, or hunting very limited shooting range. A recurve has an advantage over both compounds and crossbows when still hunting and fast shots are demanded. Etc. Right implement for right hunting conditions make for advantages, not the implement on it's own by itself.

However, this year in NYS we have seen more mature bucks harvested in a single season than we have in a very lon time. Many of these animals are coming from WNY and CNY, but every region in the State has sen some pretty impressive animals. When you see one harvested, you can bet you didn't see at least 100 just like it.

The one buck rule... Tell me, how many times have you harvested two bucks in a season? Everyone, how many seasons have you doubed up on bucks? I've been hunting for over 20 years, and I never have. 80% of the hunters I know are in that boat, too. The guys that have done it (2 buck harvest in one year) have done it once, maybe twice in their lifetimes. The DEC states through harvest trends that as many as 3200 hunters are fortunate enough to harvest more than one buck.

So, what exactly would a one buck per year limit do? Besides restrict the lucky 3,000 hunters or so (out of 520,000) from enjoying the luck they were dealt? Sure won;t do a thing for the deer numbers or your hunting quality. Too insignificant a number to be worth it.

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Doc
Good responce you seem to have the numbers. If I was willing to shoot 1.5 year old bucks I would have killed 2 every year in the last 5 years maybe longer.This is the same with the other 2 guys I hunt with as well. Thenieghborsnear ourone camp shoot on average 5 bucks a yearwith only 3 of them hunting. Most of the guys that I know that hunt private property that are willing to shoot young bucks shoot more than one buck a year on average. I think the DEC does not have good numbers mostly because these people hunting private land are proccessing there own deer and I do not think they are reporting many if any deer taken. I also belive that some guys fill other hunters buck tags so it may look like they both shot one buck each in reality one hunter may have shot two. I know this reporting thing is a problem and I dont blame the DEC for it but it gos back tothe hunter mentality of not working towards a better deer herd. Also if it would not effect but a few hunters to make it a one buck rule why not change it. On the propertys I am invovled in we have a one buck rule in place and it most be at least a 2.5 year old or better to shoot and if you shoot a button buck by accident you have to take a mature doe before you can shoot another buck. These rules are all well and good but with competeing with the nieghbors we are lucky to shoot one 2.5 year old every 3 or more years. We spend a lot of time and money on equipment, food plots, tree stands, timber harvest, trail camerasand fruit tree work for not much pay back. I am not saying we should hold everybody to this standard but some change is needed. If the hunter attitude does not change or there are some rules changed then anybody thinking of QDM, food plots and all the other stuff had better keep there expectations low or just save there money for something else.

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

I think you hit the nail on the head, and came up with the answers in the process. The guys that harvest two bucks legally do so from 2 out of the three Big Game seasons (early archery, regular, extended). If you have guys harvesting two during regular season, or two during archery/ extended, then what are the chances of that law working, too? Answer - NONE.

Guys filling other hunters tags is illegal, and the only way to change hunter attitude in this scenario is to enforce the law. If we know people who do this, complain about needing a one buck rule, but do nothing about stopping the known illegal activities, is one not also guilty of some sort of complacency to the real issue?

In terms of legal harvest, those legally harvesting two bucks per season are so small in comparison to the overall hunter numbers, it isn't worth it.

The balance of what you speak of is truly poaching, and is illegal, and the only way to stopthat is through aggressive enforcement with some serious help from concerned and involved hunters...

Next issue....

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Well Doc
You are right but when you havent seen this poaching as you call it but you just hear people talking about it just try and call the dec and see what they do about it, nothing because I have and without hardproff there is notmuchthey can do.If they do even make it out the deer are long gone and in the freezer buy the time they get there. There is not enough of these guys to even put any fear in the bandits that are out there. You might not belive it but the hunting groups around me are legal hunters and they do shoot more than one buck a year on average probably because we pass up so many 1.5 year olds and if that rule was in place they would shoot less bucks and more would reach maturity. I just wish for 1 or 2 years the hunters of NY would let some young bucks live but we both know that will never happen here!! I think the only changes the DEC or NY politicians will let happen will be ones that raise more money which is what makes the world go around. This state and the countys that i hunt in do need the money so I do understand .I do realize I am the minority and most of my ideas are for things that most people do not want and that will not change here. Doc I think you are a great guy keep up the great work you are doing with the federation and writing for the outdoor news I do love that news paper and have a great holiday season

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Doc
Buy the way how do I get this membership you suggested.
Guardian membership with the New York State Conservation Council.
Thanks
Gene

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Thanks, my friend... You are exactly correct. Without hard proof, the DEC really cannot do anything. HEaring about it and seeing it are two different animals. I heard it from a couple guys in a bar one night last year during opening week. All I could really do was tell them that wasn't right, you cannot legally harvest 2 bucks during regular season, your limit is ONE. I stopped short of calling the guy a poacher, as I really didn't want to start a brawl, but that is exactly what it is - poaching. Just like someone who keeps more than their daily limit of walleye, or shoots more than their daily limit of ducks, a guy who shoots two bucks or more during regular season (or during early archery, or ML) is doing the exact same thing - poaching.

There were and still are, no doubt, those guys who get their wives or girlfriends to buy a license so they can use their tags. The DEC did catch a few folks in this a year after DECALS, by simply calling a few of the harvest reporters and asking some simple questions. Perhaps another factor in reporting declines?

This one certainly hunter attitude. Sadly, many are taking the approach that exactly sours hunter attitude to the point of poaching - more government "meddling". License fee increases, reduced tag opportunity, license system changes, reporting system changes, new rules and season opening dates, etc, all serve to generate short-term confusion, resentment and downright hostility in some hunters, typically the hunters that are the issue at hand.

The one buck rule is like gun control, IMHO. SOmething that will make concerned hunters feel good, like we "did something", when all we have truly done is symbolic, not addressing the real issue which you did touch on. Education of hunters, teaching the benefits of selective harvest, not just open harvest. But, in this case, the law already forbids multiple buck harvest during any one season, and saying it again isn't going to change a thing.

Thanks again, and have a safe and happy holiday season!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!!

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

You may call the NYSCC Membership Program at 315-894-3302 and request a form, or visit their website at www.nyscc.com (they are renovating their site, so it may not be complete as of yet).

The mailing address is as follows:

NYSCC Membership Program
8 East Main Street
Ilion, NY 13357-1899

They basically look for Name, Address, City, State, Zip, Phone # and email address. Three levels of membership as follows, along with cost:

Guardian - 1 yr $25.00
Defender - 1 yr $60.00
Life Member - Life - $250.00

The defender and life membership levels also include Legislative Reports at least monthly, sometimes it seems almost daily.

This year, new members and renewing memberships are entered in some sort of special drawing, to be pulled at their annual full membership meeting on 9/14/07.

Hope that helps....

Oh, BTW, if you do call, the gal I have always found most helpful is Linda Coffin. She's the best....

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

I believe the procedure of a husband using a wife's tag to enable him to take 2 buck in a single season is common place and nearly impossible to stop. Calling a conservation officer to investigate such a violation is sadly a waste of time in most cases and the CO's know it. Not to mention that there are maybe 2 of them per region. What is to be done when the officer shows up only to find a deer with a properly filled out tag and the wife tells him of course she shot the deer and "what's the problem?". As a rule though, as bowkill mentioned, a lot of this takes place on private property and by the time anybody knows anything about it, the deer is processed, in the freezer, tags are filled out, and everybody envolved knows exactly what to say if a co were to show up which they probably won't even if they are informed. I hate to throw up my hands but I think I'm looking at it pretty realistically. It appears to me that, as a society, we just don't have the resources or the will to stop it. I'm afraid it just isn't that important to enough people.

RE: Ohio Regs in NY?
 

Doc
Not that it matters to me but I thought you could fill both buck tags during the late muzzel loader season if you still did not use them, is that right or wrong it sure seems to read that way in the regs?
Also thanks for the membership info.