PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

How many of you agree? There are just too many anterless deer being harvested in areas where there aren't many to begin with. Especially on public land. I know there are tons of deer in certain areas or on private land.
I think a better option is to only allow one anterless tag and allocate the balance of "needed" harvest tags in the form of landowner permits where the population is higher.
Lets have your two cents.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I agree with you. You are gonna get alot of arguements on here about the bonus tags, but I agree. I saw a total of 4 deer while out hunting during the two week hunt. Pathetic. I know there are more deer in some places than others but I do believe that they will keep doing this until most of the PA herd is gone. You cant fight insurance companies.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

What bothers me the most and it should most,made me feel bad. Is when the young one tells me. Dad, I hunted for two weeks and only seen 4tails and only had a shot at 1 deerand it was running. Now that hurts.I am actually thinking about quiting hunting and get her and I into a different activity. This is getting ridiculous. If I had the money, I would be hunting large acre canned hunts with her. Atleast she would see game animals and have a chance to harvest one. Next year is goanna be a disaster for the youth mentor in Pa.. Them kids under 12 are not goanna see diddly squat. I think this will deter them from wanting to hunt. Especially when it is cold out. They rather play a video game in the warmth of the house than hunt for a ghost in the cold woods. This isn't just for deer, this is for small game included. Better do something or people are goanna be paying 3 to 4 times the amount for a license to make up for the ones who are quitting. It won't bother me, I wont be the onebuying them.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I agree.Eliminate the bonus tags and go back to the 3 day doe season.The does are getting slaughtered during the early muzzleloader hunt and the concurrent two week rifle season.I hunt Bradford county and its feast or famine depending on where you hunt.I saw 34 deer the first 2 days including 5 different buck(2 legal).Some guys on neighboring properties hunted the first 3 days and never saw a deer.We eliminated doe hunting except in the late m/l season.The only thing i dont like about the late m/l season is a lot of bucks are killed that dropped there horns already.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I disagree. My camp is in the ANF (2F) and not a week goes by without someone writing in to the local paper crying about no deer. Our group hunted land open to the public and saw plenty of deer every time we hunted and saw several nice bucks.While there are places where we saw less deer than 10 yearsago, that was habitat that was severely degraded from too many deer for too long.

While it's true that some have seen the productivity of their favorite stand go downhill in recent years, those hunters who are willing to adapt are still seeing and harvesting deer. At least that's how it is in our part of the state.

I will say that we've moved our huntingarea to places where timber harvesting hashelped the habitat. Instead of crying out for less doe tags, it might be more productive to ask why the PGC has repeatedly underharvested their timber in recent years.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I agree with the whole get rid of the bonus tag thing. I might live in milwaukee but i am from Pa and i go back every year for deer season. My stepfather and little brother saw one deer all season. This is the first year that i can remember that they didnt get a deer. You all should read the article (cant rember what it is called) in Deer and deer hunting mag about what could happen when you shoot to many doe.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

There's always the option of not shooting a Doe for a few years. I passed on quite a few oppourtunities this year. I told myself that I shouldn't complain about Deer numbers and still harvest a Doe or 2. I had 3 DMAP tags and one regular tag for 2F and I didn't use any. I agree that the deer numbers are lower than most of us are used to, but the reality of it is it still is our choice to pull the trigger.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I saw plenty of deer this year. there are not as many deer as previous years, but in the 90's the deer herd was outrageous. My dad has 30 acres, on Sat. alone I saw 22 deer. 14 in one group that went across the back field and two groups of 4 in a different area. For the forage available that is way too many deer in that area. The nieghbors land is worse. When the deer are overbrowsing on redbrush there is a problem. I would say yes to eliminating bonus tags in some areas, but others need more deer taken. I hear some of the nieghbors talk of there being no deer around. Thier problem is they hunt a redbrush swamp and sit in a treestand all day. Not once do half of them ever move from that spot. Everyone was spoiled in the late 80's and 90's. Go ask an oldtimer about the deer herd in the 50's. Mt dad showed me a newspaper article out of the Mercer paper. It was an article about someone actually seeing a buck. He can remember when there werent many deer in Crawford and Mercer counties. They were all in teh big woods. The herd got too large and overbrowsed that area and moved to the farmlands around Crawford and Mercer counties. The forage is starting to come back up there and from the people I talk to they are seeing more deer this year. Personally I am happy with what they have done and hope it continues.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

What Pennsylvania needs is better deer management. By that I mean the Wildlife management units (WMU) are much too large. It's very difficult to manage the deer herd in such vast areas. One farm may have an over abundance of deer and just a couple of miles away another farm will be nearly devoid of deer. Another thing needed is Citizen Taskforces that could input vital information about the deer herd in particular areas and also present suggestions for improvement to the PGC.

Sure, your little corner of the ANF may have a good population of deer, but I've heard too many other hunterswho hunt deep inside the ANF who see few if any deer. They can't all be bad hunters.

The FLIR showed an average of 10 deer per Sq. Mi. We know from scientific studies that our forests can sustain20 deer per sq mi. So when does the slaughter stop? Yes, we need seperate rules for public and private land with regard to killing doe.

Believe me, if PGC executives and the members of the Board of Commissioners were to hunt public land for rifle deer season there would be an immediate change in deer management.

If you want better deer management demand it from your sportsman's organization such as Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Club, Unified Sportsmen of PA and United Bow Hunters of PA. Perhaps they can get the ear of the PGC.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I have to agree with the " No bonus tags " also.

I have several good friends that are way above average hunters tell me they hunted several days without seeing a deer. These guys usually pass on does and wait for nice bucks.

My father quit hunting last year. He hunted since he was 12. Said he had better things to do than give the PGC his money to go bird watching.

With the antler restrictions, he has trouble seeing points and has let many deer walk because he wasn't sure. Now that the doe herd is way down, he sees very few of them. He's been selling his guns. Said he had enough.

Have a guy at work that just told me he probably won't be getting his PA license if they raise the price. Said he only saw a couple deer all season ( archery, muzzleloader, rifle) He said he might hunt in West Virginia next year on a cousins farm instead.

Have another buddy that has taken several really nice bucks with a bow and rifleover the years.He has always passed on small bucks and rarely shot does.He saw only a couple deer this year. He's disgusted.

I saw a total of 6 deer the first day this year. I hunted with my daughter. She said this was her last year. She doesn't want to hunt anymore.

I think as fewer and fewer deer are being seen, guys will quit or start moving to other areas. As they move to other areas, many guys will find their "Honey Holes" invaded by these other hunters. I see a future in PA of more posted land and more guys leasing property. Just finding a good place to hunt will start becoming more difficult.


You guys owning your own private hunting ground, consider yourself lucky. Expect to see guys trespassing in the next few years. I've noticed more guys doing that this year. The don't care about posted property and will trespass. They know that very little can be done to them for it.


The worst is yet to come!

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Maybe they should go back to just giving tags to counties and not WMU. I hunted in2f also and I know that it is possible forForest county to have alot more deer than in Warren county and visa versa. I know there are deer but just not as many as before.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Remember when a few years back they only gave bonus tags for private land. I remember quite a few people complaining its not fair. Now I hear people say it should only be giving bonus tags to private land hunters.[&:] I dont want it sound like I am picking on any one. But I just dont get it? That old saying "Damned if you do damned if you dont"[&:]

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I have to agree, I was all for the herd reduction several years ago and I still feel that it was needed, but my area has been hit hard and is really showing the signs of if. These past two years I spent more time archery hunting than ever before, I had a very flexible work schedule and 2 weeks of vacation for the end of the regular archery season and doe sightings were minimal. The past two years I have seen way more bucks than does while scouting, spotting, and hunting, not to mention my game camera has proved this. I would say that for every doe I saw, I would see 7 or 8 bucks, yes this is fun, but in the big scheme of things it doesn't seem healthy.

As far as just not shooting does, yeah, in theory it sounds good, but all you are doing is leaving a tag for another person to fill. The past two years I havn't bought a doe tag for this very same reason but they are getting bought up by guys who hunt the adjacent property and they do their deer drives and bust the does.

My grandfather hunted every day of this rifle season and in that time he saw a total of 3 deer, all were crossing a narrow cut between two thick patches of brush before daylight.

Like I said, I am fortunate to live in what many would consider to be one of the best spots in the state for deer (size, numbers, quality, and habitat wise). This is farm country where even before the herd reduction, there was plenty of food for deer. Soybeans, corn, clover, and alfalfa fields are abundant and the woods are packed with oaks and great browse. One of my favorite patches of land to hunt is 100 acres in size (the timber) and is surrounded on two sides by corn fields, one side by a clover field, and the other side is a soybean field. The woods have some excellent bedding areas (small ravines above a creek bottom that are full of dead falls mixed with multi-floral rose bush), plenty of water with two different streams running through the property and two ponds on the property. The open parts of the woods are mostly white oaks, and there is little to no hunting pressure. Sounds like a great spot right? Well, I have been through these woods several time in the past week and found a total of two different sets of deer tracks.

I don't know exactly what needs to be done, I can sit here and act like I know how to fix all the problems but in all honesty, there are more underlyingproblems than anybody in the general public knows about so what I say wouldn't work. All I know is that something needs to change!

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I live in new york, My dad seen 2 deer this season, He got one of them. Last year he didn't even get one. There has to be some change in this

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I agree with stopping theDoe slaughtering. I don't mind the AR your're seeing bigger bucks. Butthere is Not an endless supply of deer out there.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I hunted 2 wks in 3d and only seen four doe a spike and an eight pointer. 5 yrs ago I would have seen three times more deer. There isn't even deer sign. I have no doubt some ares have a lot of deer but they sure aren't around here. I bought 6 doe tags this year, therr for me and three for my son and I don't plan to fill any of them. I could care less if PA has monster bucks, I would just like to see something when I hunt.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Not if your spending the 6.00 for the tag, What's 6.00 nowadays? I don't know the answers either ,but I will buy tags and not fill them if I have to.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I'magainst the whole taking away the bonus tag thing.. i mean.. how many people do you know that go out every year or maybe even just one year that fills every tag. I know in my house hold between my dad and I, we have both have a doe tag for 4C and both have a doe tag for 4E.. last year.. we filled one tag out of all of 6 deer tags in the house and it wasn't for lack of deer. since i can remember, i know one of my friends that has tagged out on bonus tags and that was this archery season. Just because they sell them, doesn't mean everybody goes out and fills every tag sold. i mean.. i have a private farm in 4E and i live in 4C so with a bonus tag that allows me to harvest a doe if needed at either place.

I do see what people were talking about earlier in this topic about trespassers and such.. i was hunting my farm in 4E this year and i'm sitting up on a hill and hear a car slow down, the door closes, and then the car drives up the road a little bit and you hear the guy get out and they started yelling and driving the hollow that was right next to the road... and quick got in their car and left when they saw me get out of my tree stand and walk towards them. along with the 2nd to last week of archery, i grunted in a buck that would easily score in the 150's range.. had it at 40 yards and marching straight at me all puffed up when out of no where a hunter comes marching through the woods from the other side...i'm guessing he heard the gruntsas well.then when he saw my rip my face mask off andget readyto climb down, he took off...

Anothertopic people can blame for the deer herd is poaching. you don't always have to point the finger at the pgc for screwing up the deer herd.i know in myarea last year, i heard stories of a guy having 100+fresh deer kills at his house after beingbusted for shooting at a decoy.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

we only filled 4 of 8 doe tags we had between us. My daughter filled the last one Sat after all day drives.We seen prob7 deer,But none would give her a standing shoot until the last drive.Had to work for that deer.I didn't enjoy that much work for a frakin doe,But at the end,It paid off to see her excitement. Still to much work for a doe if you ask me. Not one single buck seen all year and very little doe. We use to drive for bucks,Now we have to do it for does to.To funny.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I hope they don't, I can't shoot enough of them off my place in 3B. We have too many does........on a 130 acre property I know of at least 7 different family groups of does/fawns that frequent the property on nearly a daily basis.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I'm one of the fortunate hunters whom has family farms to hunt, over 1000acres in total in 3A. We kill some awesome bucks each year. But we killed just as manyawesome bucks BEFORE Alt and his "make Pa in Iowa" scheme. What we don't see is deer innumbers like we did a few years ago.
I have several young family members whom tried hunting in the last 3 yrs and dropped out...just aren't seeing enough deer to keep them occupied. I have family that are in their 40's whom have hunted for deer on these same farms since their youth...some of them have quit as well citing lack of deer sightings as the reason.
We had for as many years as I can remember to turn family andfriends away just because there is a limit to the amount of people we could put up in our farm homes at one time. This year there were 6 of us hunting. TOTAL on 1000 acres.
We work these farms we are in these fields 365days/yr. We know the amount of deer on our land. GUESS WHAT there are darn few. Yet the PGC insists on offering way too many doe tags each year for revenue and because they are stuck in this "Altism style of deer management".
The PGC has cut off it'snose to spite it'sface! Now with less back tags being sold each year and hunter recruitment way down they are crying how they need capital to operate. Who is going to keep paying more to see less.
I support those whom say "No rate hike without results". The PGC has had several years tohave their program show results. I supported them in this,left large portions of our land unposted,etc. Heck I even purchase a general backtag even though I do not need to. But no longer!!!!!!
We've lost too many hunters over not seeing deer wether it is on public or private land. IT IS TIME TO MAKE A DRASTIC DROP IN DOE TAGS. Keep the early MZ, drop concurrent buck/doe gun season, go back to allowing JUST 1 DEER per season in WMUs with low deer numbers, allow the purchase of multiple doe tags inWMUs with high deer numbers.
IF we ran our farms like the PGC runs it's game management we'd be broke in 1 year!

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

And this from a person who bragged about shooting 5 button bucks on public land on purpose. How hypocritical! This persons sucks up the bonus tags and then takes future bucks from everyone else because it refuses to shoot these deer on the "family" properties. How sad.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Well said Rob!

I said it several weeks ago and I'll say it again. I think maybe we have a troll on our hands!

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I'm sorry, but I don't buy your story eaglechickie! If you have a 1000 acre farm and no deer your either a bad farmer or not really one at all. I too hunt on a farm around 1000 acres at times and have always seen lots of deer.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

i agree you should be only able to get one extra tag, i know people getting 8 to 10 tags and shoot deer and dont eat half of them which is pointless.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

We need to get rid of the two week doe and go back to the three day doe after the two week buck. We also have to get rid of the one size fits all doe management style. Go back to the county by countyto keep a better handle on the kill.Then we don't end up with too many in one area. And two in another area.I do absolutly agree with letting smaller bucks go to grow in to larger mature animals.I just can't help but to wonder how many of these future monsters are killed as button bucks in the doe slaughter season

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

We cannot go back to the 3 day after the 2 week. I agree getting rid of the both sex season however it makes no sense in killing the does that the bucks ran around breeding to begin with. If anything, the doe need to be hunted and killed prior to the rut. As much as I hate the intrusion in bow season, the does need killed then, even if it's a 3 day rifle season. I don't think that many are taken in the muzzleloader season.

I also agree with micromanaging areas, not necessarily county, the management units are fine but perhaps need mircomanaged themselves but they do not have the resources for that.

I wonder too, just ask eagle chickie, she purposely killed 5 on public land, or so she brags.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

My thought on having the doe slaughter after the rifle buck is that the deer will be more timmid and a little harder to get.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Rob you are correct I did kill several BB on purpose on public land, SGLin 3A mostly that are STILL over population goals of the PGC. Isn't that what the PGC wants less deer??????? Or do you think they only offeranterless tags to kill doe and let bucks munch the habitat so wannabe trophy hunters can have more bucks?????????
Did you read the part of my post that also said I (and family) leave large sections of OUR land open to hunting/unposted? ??? Also a knock on our doors will usually gain someone access to other areas of our lands.
A large portiuon of our lands are surrounded by SGL & SFwhere the hunters flock each year to harvest deer that have fed on our crops. We saw this again this year,hunters griping about lack of deer sightings but joined togetherin deer drives. Sometimes 15-20 hunters on one drive, most drives provided few deer sightings several none but yet every anterless deer that was seen was shot at. Is there any wonder why there are so few deer??? Or why when I want venison for sausage I drive to another area to kill mine???????
As for my killing BB with my bow I explained that...I like the younger venison and in fawns the BB as a general rule are larger. I passed several mature does with fawns and a few with no fawns...that is my option, within the law. Just as it is someone elses option within the law to pass BB and kill a breeding class doe.
Come up to NE WMU 3A ask around for Stolfutz Dairy Farms...we aren't that hard to find. Knock on the door I'll be home for a few more weeks tending to my child whom is in recovery from surgery. EC

edited by EC to read:
On second thought Rob your apparentdislike over my killing BB (which is really non of your business),apparent jealousy over my havinggood private ground to hunt,yourattitude that bowhunters are much better hunters and deserve a month long season without any intrusions have me thinking I won't grant access to our lands tosomeone with that attitudeso don't bother to knock on our doors.EC

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Rob, I'm beginning to think we worried about the fate of those bb's for nothing. After all, they didnt show up in the contest on the archers chois section yet did they? Even though you pointed it out, no response was forthcoming in that thread.

We've seen this type of poster before a few times. Most notably a delusional hog farmer, lawyer, land tycoon,from the notheast a few years ago. They come and go under different names posting ridiculous outlandish delusionary inflammatory posts and then either disappear or get banned.

Hopefully "it" will get bored with us and move on.

I'm sure you're crushed that you just lost that 1000 acres to hunt.:(

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Uncle Uly oh where are you?:D
I was out your way and should have stopped to visit whilst I had the chance....now you are gone:(

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

BT what is your problem?
You chase horn andI don't big deal and I've still manage to kill several P&Y whitetails from 135-165"BIG WHOOPIE DOO!!none of those buckswere as tastey on the grille as a fat button buck's loin and sauasage made from the rest...yummy
You know what?????? If I knew the area you hunted I'd come there and kill BB too :) EC

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Man I love horns. Could you snap a few pics of these P&Y PA whitetails so we can drool?

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Uncle Uly's niece maybe?

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

You are so mistaken. I hunt some very prime PRIVATE land in PA and I have no problem scoring a whitetail buck every archery season. I do however feel sorry for the public land hunters in your area not to mention the private land around said public land whose future bucks you are greedily taking. You deliberately take button bucks for the young meat but yet they are bigger than thier doe sibblings, all that greed for what a pound or two of extra meat. AND prepared properly, an adult doe will melt in your mouth. Your claims on your defense are laughable.

AND I could care less whom you grant access to on "family" property, I won't have any part of your dilusional attempt at mismanaging your herd. You constantly back talk your own statements and I honestly think you haven't a clue to what needs done in our state. If you did, you wouldn't slaughter button bucks. I find that inexcusable regardless and without skill.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Rob; Answer this question straight on: Is it illegal to kill button bucks in Pa during any deer season?
So what bugs you is my family and I kill them...tough! We don't care what you like or dislike..sounds callous but in the short form that is your answer...tough

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

liv give me a day or so and I'll send them to you, you may opt to post them should you wish.... send me a message with your email address. Ec

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

I shot two buttons last week and was insulted by some on this forum all so.I took the buttons on purpose to let the does go.I do care about the deer heard in Pa.The ones who whined about it are the ones who want larger bucks.I don't care about large bucks.There was plenty of bucks around before the AR came in to affect.The doe population is suffering because of the greed to want bigger bucks.It wasn't about the quanity it was about the quality to these bone hunters.These are not just your deers,These deer are for all the hunters out there.You tell us to hunt harder to find the deer cause we are not as talented in finding deer as you are all.All I have to say to the bone hunters,Is that you are like us meat hunters who want to see deer around every tree except you want to see morebigger racked deer to make your trophy easier to bag.I say to you all who tell us towork harderfor deer out in the woods to work harder for your trophy not at the expense of killing all our does to make your trophy easier to bag with your AR program.I been called a hipocrit on here and now I guess I can call you bone hunters the same.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

Boy there are seem really dillusional, miseducated people hunting in PA.

RE: PA - Time to STOP the bonus tags
 

No, it's not illegal to kill button heads, it's just an inservice to yourself, your fellow hunters and the herd in general when done intentional and in the numbers you boast.

That is exactly the answer I assumed you would give, a very selfish one. You killing every button buck that walks by has no bearing on my hunting whats so ever, it's just such a selfish act against your fellow neighboring hunters and one I believe you do intentionally to spite your fellow neighboring hunters which says a lot of your character as a person. :eek:

I wonder why the PGC was in your area to begin with?