PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Well, it's been somewhere around four years since the antler restrictions went into effect here in PA. I wasn't real sure until this tear if they were actually working or not, but with the really nice bucks I've seen at the processer I go to, and those that I've seen on vehicles passing, plus what my friends have shot this year, (I'm still looking), I've gotta believe that it's working. I can't remember any years past when I've seen so many nice racks.
How do the rest of you feel?

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

There are def nicer bucks in Pa....it has been this way for the past few years now. Problem is that we are letting these little bucks grow and then slaughtering them the following year, along with the does. I hunt all over PA including chester county, bucks county, centre county, wayne county and westmoreland county. I have seen a drop in herd size but a nice increase in the bigger bucks.....if you put your time in, you should get a nice deer.....but I wish they would stop the doe slaughter asap!!

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I agree 100 %. I have never seen such huge racks at the butchers. I saw a 10 point in there that would have scored 150's easy and came to find out that he just got two in this past week that dwarfed him. He also had more 8 and ten pointers than I could shake a stick at. I also agree with the doe kill as well. I think it's about time they start cutting back. I think they are just killing too many of them.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I agree with the doe kill being to high also. The problem is that in areas where the AR is 4 points on one side, people are holding out for a buck and letting the doe pass, leaving to many deer in these areas. I was hunting in 2A and was speaking to the game warden who said that just a little over a month ago, they were still seeing fawn with spots. That to me is way to many doe for the buck to be breeding.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

it is amazing, where are all the nay sayers and Alt bashers now????? You don't seem to hear much about that anymore. Kind of curious. Now we are having similar debates in NY.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I think bigger racks are being produced for two reasons.AR/less deer more food.On public lands there's very few buck being killed and there are a few nice ones but it's hard where overharvests occur.
I started practing my own AR before it became law{personal choice}
Having said that in the long run it won't be good for hunting as the license sales will reflect the lack of deer on public lands.
Where there is some control of the harvests I think AR is working well.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

i like ar's but i think they should start teaching people on letting the legal 1.5 bucks go. i think that would make it even better.
also i agree on most public land they need to cut way back on the doe kill.





thats cause they get kicked off of here if they speak against it

No - No - It's because they - Never - Ever have anything constructive to relay to fellow hunters.

ALL Negative

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Ihad 24 deer on my food plot 5 years ago,now I have 8. to many doe tags.The button bucks where the first to go ,they are to easy.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I have definitely seen an increase in antler size.Ive seen some very nice bucks killed this year and last year.You guys are right about the doe slaughter,way to many does being killed.We stopped doe shooting 2 years ago except in the late flintlock season.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

AR is probably making a little difference in seeing more average size bucks. and a few more nice bucks but not everywhere in the state.
Out west where they have 4pt rule and other conditions to produce nicer bucks well sure, but other parts of the state need a little more help.
The numbers for 3D are pretty close every year. they could sell unlimited
doe tags the harvest report doesn't change. the reports I have been hearing for this area this year are poor. unless someone can tell me
some news I haven't heard,

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

antler size seems to be the same here in somerset county. Nothing to large spotted or shot by anyone in my hunting party. There are very few deer I've been out everyday all day and I have 9 deer sightings and 8 of the 9 came on opening day. The doe slaughter here is terrible. I dont think they need to keep issuing so many tags [:@]. Hunting here is deffinately at a all time low.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

My areas have really improved with the AR. I've gone from seeing 2-3 2.5 year olds to seeing 8-10.I would see a 3.5+ yr old buck once every 3-4 years in my spots, now I am seeing2-3 a year.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Another thing I've noticed as well is not just the size of the bucks but the amount of bucks being taken. Everyone I have spoken with has had success stories and this is accross multiple counties. My family hunts Lycoming, Huntingdon, York, Lancaster and Perry counties and we have taken decent bucks in each one this year. Our family has hunted Lycoming county for the past 70 years and this year has been the best year in recent history with us taking 4 bucks and 3 decent ones. I took mine first morning in Huntingdon out of the same hollow where we also took another 8 point in archery. Through the seasons this yearwe have also seen 4 other buck in huntingdon from our stand one of which was a monster. My cousin also missed another rack buck in huntingdon on the first saturday (he'syoung and probably got buck fever since it was a pretty nice 10 point). In perry county two friends took a 7 and an 8 and another missed a large rack but they have been seeing deer all through archery and rifle. I really like the way the hunting is beginning to turn around but would still like to see fewer does killed. Oh yeah, every single deer that we have seen or shot has all been on public land.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

One size does notfit all. I wouid like to see it go back to county by county,and go back to the two day doe hunt afterskipping one year. We are killing way two many does and along with that the button bucks that are supposed to grow up and be monsters.


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RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

My group hunted Timber Company land in the ANF this gun season (totally open top the public) This is a three point area andwe sawthree times as many 8+ pointers as we saw small bucks there.There were still plenty of deer and plenty of sign everywhere we hunted.

While I agree that there may be isolated spots where the doe kill has gone a bit too far, any wildlife biologist will agree that killing more does is an integral part of managing a herd for better quality. We've seen the doe tags backed off in the northwoods and may see a bit more before things level off but overall it seems to be working IMHO.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I have to agree with with you about hear in 3D!! Especially on public land at least where I hunt! The buck that I have seen are average size 6, 8, 3, & 4 pointers! I have seen nicer bucks in the past 2 years hear and I have gotten lucky to take a nice 8-pointer in archery last year and a really nice 3 1/2 year old 8-pointer this year on the first day of rifle!! I hunt the same area every year and my buck/doe ratio this year throuugh all of archery and rifle is 6 buck and 10 doe! I have been out alot and I have yet to see a doe this rifle season! I really think they need to cut down on the antlerless tags here!! (JMO) Not many shots at all where I've been hunting! The only thing I can say I really like is hunting this area in archery! Did not see one person hunting in there this year!! Had it all to myself this season! I think a lot of guys are really disgusted and tring new places which is fine to me!

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I have seen concrete evidence in several diverse habitats over multiple seasons that AR does in fact work remarkably well.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Definately working in my area. I hunt farmland in Berks county. My family harvested 5 buck so far out of 7 hunters. Two basket 8 pointers, one 7-Point w/ 19" spread and 5" bases, one 9-Point w/ 17" spread and one 10-point with a 21" spread and 5.5" bases.

I too think there should be more micro-management for the overall deer population by area. Hopefully they continue to dial back the doe tags in the areas you guys are not seeing the numbers. We need to continue to shoot doe in our area.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I'll admit that the AR's are working to let bucks get bigger. I'm not a big fan of it. I'm not a trophy hunter. I just like deer meat. It is nice to take a big buck with nice antlers but I'm happy to get any legal buck. But, yes it is working.

I hunt in Greene Co.mostly. Seen waaaaaay fewer deer this year than ever before. I hunted hard all of archery and early muzzleloader. I hunted hard the first week of rifle.I saw very few deer compared to past years.

I did see lots of little bucks, since WMU 2A is 4pt area.

I saw more little bucks than does.I saw a lot fewer deer overall.

This year the first day of rifle I took my daughter. I saw 4 bucks and 2 does all day. Every year we see fewer and fewer.

I know I'm as guilty as anyone for taking does. I can't really blame anyone. I admit. I feel they need to go back to a 2 day season with the does. I hear it is really bad up north. I feel for those guys.

The 4pt AR makes it tough counting points. I've had to pass on many over the last few years because I wasn't sure. I also saw some really nice 4 pointer and six pointers. Saw one 4 pointer this year that was really big.

I do wonder if in a few more years of taking the bucks with better genes and letting spikes and forkies go if this may hurt genetics down the road.

You take two different yearling bucks and one is an 8 , the other a spike. The 8 gets taken out , the spike lives.

If they would cut doe licenses and have it 4pt ARstate wide, we'd really see some changes.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

id be all for that!!!!!!!! i dont think they have done a study for this or not but i would love to know the % of 1.5 bucks that would live longer between the 3pt to the 4pt area. i see way to many 1.5 bucks getting killed in the 3pt area.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Let me see here.7 days hunting atleast 7hrs a day 49hrs seen 7 deer shot two of them.Both does, Haven't seen a single buck of any size.All 7 was does.Pa. is goanna lose hunters next year.How about this,One doe tag,No Bonuses and change doe season to october for 3 days only? This way the does that we do see during the two week rifle season actually do get bread and not shot if they are preg.Mostpeople prob would'nt spend much time freezingout in the woods looking for a buck if they get their doe in the warmer month.I said people not hunters.This would even let the bucks get bigger and increase the deer heard and buck to doe ratio would still be 50 50.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

My thoughts exactly.
There are areas that need more does taken, and some that need less taken. I just wouldn't feel right about taking a doe in an area that holds very few deer to begin with. I've probably said that here a thousand times.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Send AR up to NY would ya?

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I think AR's are a good idea but PA will never be a big buck state like Ohio or IL. We have a 2 wk rifle season wheremost ofthe buck are wiped out. Areas I hunt in Pike county have very few deer left. Giving out huge amounts of doe tags for public land hunting is just stupid. Most of the deer I have seen are on private property. We seem to be killing the deer in the wrong places. If the state would seperate public and private land regulations I think things would be much better. After the first year they opened doe during rifle season we seen really good results. Now we just don't see anything.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

no... you didnt issue that tags... but you bought them... The real people... who are the real people... and are you not a real person?

No... not to a point... you are a Hypocrite and part of the reason the herd is declining...

HAHAH actually... people who post their property are actually helping to conserve the population.. if there is limited hunting in an area do to the property being posted... wouldnt that mean there are more deer there... why would u want to push the deer off of the property... deer dont stay in one piece of ground.. deer travel.. especially during the rut..

now if I was a predator.... i would be hiding out somewhere where i know there will be a plethora of wounded animals or dead animals that werent found by the people who shot them.. i would be on public land where there are a million people wiping out the deer herd by one way or another... mostly by shooting immature bucks or does...or by shooting numerous bucks (button) or does...

Think about it..

no i see them in the big woods that arent posted... feasting off of wounded or dead deer that were never found...

or you could do something about it yourself.. and not buy a doe license.. or bonus tags... just think about it... people who issue the licenses arent the ones shooting 2 doe a year.. there is not ONE rule in the regulations that says you must buy a doe license.. or apply for a bonus tag... and it does NOT say that your tags must be filled..

im everyone would do something about it conserving the herd... we wouldnt have this problem.. the deer pop. would increase and everyone would stop complaining...

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I have seen some nice bucks killed, but nothing out of the ordinary. Herd decline, most definitely. This will ultimately mean fewer and fewer bucks in the future. Sure, they have worked the past few years, but what happens when the herd is significantly wiped out for several years, including the bucks?

I have been doing some research on other states management practices and am shocked. A 2 week rifle season is not the norm in most states. Bottom line is that we have way too many hunters to allow that many tags. I miss the good ol days of split seasons. This concurrent season deal stinks.

My suggestions would be to make 4pt a side state wide. Also, lets see a "wide as its ears" regulation. Then split up the seasons the way they used to be and not get carried away with the tags.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

actually 2 dead button bucks= 2 dead fawns, probably 10 doe that will never get impregnated, 2 bucks that wont grow up to mature bucks... i could keep going on and on.. but im done arguing about this... i have Finals to worry about here at PSU..

good luck to everyone and Happy hunting... i wouldnt be this concerned but this year and last year have been the worst 2 years hunting i have ever experienced.. the herd numbers are wayyyyy down.. but the bucks i have seen at my friends taxidermy have been massive for the area.. so i think the restrictions are working....

if only people would quit shootng doe... and BUTTON BUCKS

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

A buddy of mine hunts Jersey, Earn a buck area, the club he belongs to slaughters does every year, they and the state don't carewhat kind of doe, mature, fawn, BB whatever brown its down, this year he alone
has taken 6 does this year, the last two years were not as good,
but anyway he wonders where they come from because even he thinks
there shouldn't be any left. But, the state makes the rules and they follow them. the only bucks are just small 1.5 yold. what's funny is his club has very little opportunity's at bucks and the ones they do see are small so they let them walk. they been duing this for three years and still don't see any mature bucks.
But there are Monster Bucks in Jersey I've seen quite a few.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I think that is an erroneous statement. I just read a short while back an article from a biologist the said a doe can birth fawns from two different bucks at the same time. Iwill have to search for the article, I don't remember exactly where I read it because I read everything about deer that goes past me. When in heat a doe will stand for breeding multiple times and more than one buck often will mount her. Their reproductive system is configured in such a way that individual eggs can be fertilized by separate bucks. This is a survival tactic to ensure that breeding will take place one way or another. Dang, I just read that! What a coincidence this would come up.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Heard the exact same thing at a QDM seminar earlier this year put on by QDMA thru our state F&G.Unlike some those folks know what there talkin about.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Since this thread is supposed to be about whether or not ARs are working, did you stop at Ackley's this yearor last year? 75 bucks enteredon the first two days this season:

Avg. weight: over 140lbs.
Avg. points: slightly over 8 points
29 bucks with spreads 17" (inside) or greater
About half the entries weighed more than 130lbs (quite a few over 150lbs)

My son hadn't hunted up there in the past 10 years but came up and hunted the first 3 days this year. Upon looking at the entry board and then going inside to look at the pictures, he observed that they sure didn't look like this around here 10 years ago.It wasn't allthat many years ago that a 140lb buck with a 17" spread was a potential contest winner there, since they were primarily 120 pounders with 10"-12" spreads.Now, the winners weigh upwards of 170lbs and sport 22"-25" 10 or 12pt racks.

Having hunted in that area for over 40 years and recalling what weights and rack dimensions the avg. buck amounted to over that time period, there were some mighty spectacular bucks brought in there this year and last few years, come to think of it. Granted, it's just one small picture of the overall situtation, but things are looking up in the bigger bucks department in the area I hunt in.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

It was but a few short years ago when Ackley's had over 100 bucks registered at the end of the first day. Many of them big bucks.

But let's talk about the Buck and deer kill on Game Lands and other Public Land. What do those figures show us?

And let's not forget, none of the executive managers of the PGC nor any of the Commissioners hunt public land on opening day of deer (rifle) season. If things are so damn good on Game Lands and public land why is it that none of the policy makers hunt there?

If we could only get the military statistician who heads up the PGC and Gary Altto impliment the Herd Reduction Plan in Iraq against the terrorists and insurgents the world would be a better place. Don't you agree???

By the way, where's the photo of your17"+ buck?

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Good Point - The Topic is: PA Antler restrictions working?

It Ain't about Does or BB's - OR - who's shootin Bambi's - OR - Who and Why hunters hunt Where they do.

Are AR's working in PA. I was really liken this thread and glad to see some positive posts about some nice Bucks taken up there. That's the topic.

But then Somebody(s) has to hi-jack the Topic[:@]

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I apologize for my part in the off topic discussion. SORRY! I do feel that AR's are working in Pa. I have seen alot of nice bucks the past couple of years. I still wish we'd allow them to get another year older somehow. Imagine if we could get the bucks to about 4 1/2 years old instead of alot of 2 1/2 year olds. I guess that isn't reality in Pa though.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

is AR working,i am seeing bigger rack deer killed BUT fewer buck are being seen..so, is AR working,no..it would work if following happened..

hunters stop shooting fawns which turn into your future AR buck..

if hunters dont stop shooting fawns,then,3 point rule for all, including kids..

as long as hunters pull trigger on fawns,no AR is going to work..

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Don't recall if Alt said more and bigger bucks, or more bigger bucks. Never attended any of his shows nor watched the VHS tape they handed out.

While Ackley'soften had over a hundred bucks entered with a few nice ones each seasonsome yearsback, prior to ARs being in place the past few seasons,most were light weight deer withbasket racks, spikes and forkhorns. Many will not even take a buck there now, since they close at 6PM instead of staying open late on opening night, as the previous owner always did. Rules say they must be entered on the day taken. Wasn't a problem gettinga late afternoon killthere from 30 miles away, when you had until8PM.

Don't have a pic of "my" 17" buck. Passed on several does the first few days, only saw 3 sub-legal bucks the first week. Did see several nice ones during archery season, driving around "glassing"in the late afternoons during the falland while spotlighting. Cousin's kid also got pics of them in the immediate areaon his trail cam. He did kill a heavy 18" 8pt not far from where I hunt, during archery season. The nice 10 pointerwe saw this fall was killed by a neighboring farmer on opening day. Didn't kill any deer this year at camp, as I came home last night.

Yep, all on private ground. It's where I primarilyhunt. Figure if a tight wad like me can afford a small parcel to hunt on and manage to get along well enough with the neighboring farmersto hunt on their ground too, so should just about anyone else be able to. I hunt on SGLs closer to where I live, mostly during flintlock season. I could care less wherecommissioners hunt, don't know why you or anyone elsewould. It's not a socialist state, yet.

Yes, we now have fewer deer, just as I suspected we would once HR was in place for a few years. Life holds fewer surprises for them what pays attention.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

glad to see that there is a wave of folks who actually notice it is getting better... I have seen a steady increase in quality bucks.. The point germain made is perfect..For years we had too many deer.. and limited food... Our farm was killed each year... by Jan and Feb the deer were so hungry they literally came onto our porch and ate the bird feeder.. The term Germain didn't use is called carrying capacity by farmers... we PA folks let the carrying capacity to be exceeded for years and then we got used to it... now we are repairing the problem..

Ohio, smokin bucks, not thousands of deer... Ill, smokin bucks, not thousands... Iowa, smokin bucks, not thousands of deer... PA has switched from an agricultural base to timber, mining, and service base... Iowa, Ohio, Ill more agricultural and more carrying capacity..

Do the math.. 500,000 does x 1 fawn = 1,000,000 every spring.. Kill 300,000 does and you still have 700,000 does left.. just like cattle... The mystical formula is not that mystical...

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

Your very simple Math makes more sence than anything I've read on these PA threads in Years!!

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

I moved from Monroe County Pa. in Sept and sorry I wouldn't have a chance to hunt Pa. I can tell you from my observations that in the 18 years I lived there I never saw so many good bucks in my travels as this year prior to my move.
8 pt were common and got to see at least a dozen more in the 10 +. They're there alrightbut with no tresspassing signs the state "flower" of the area they'll be harder to come by. Heck I saw a heavy body 8near Shoprite on 191 in Stroudsburg and watched a nice 10 get hit by a car and then get uprun off (lucky for the buck it was a rainy day and cars moving slow)in the middle of the day in Mountainhome.

RE: PA Antler restrictios--working?
 

In my area definately working...Killed a 7-1/2 year old 13 pointer this year that dressed out at 187 lbs with a 142 gross score. I love AR!

Most of the Nay sayers in my area are slowly begining to like see the light on AR...and the now support it. Alot of Nicer quality animals.

I personally think the deer #s are about where they should be. However, we hunted alot of SGL's the 2nd week of the season and i will say the PGC needs to do some major timbering! They are all mature hardwoods with nothing for the deer to eat ) except acorns if there is a mast crop.

My observations....from the 2nd week...Where there was food and cover the deer where there....Open pole timber or mature hardwoods and there was nothing!!