RE: mountain lions in ny
 

Why do you think there are ml's in VT. Vermont, Mass, New Hamshire and Maine fish and game all say the same as NY, i.e. no evidence to support them being there.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

DuBrock said the commission has always investigated mountain lion sightings. But up until now, the agency didn’t have an official protocol for responding to them, keeping track of how many reports were received or where they came from.
Starting this month, commission officials who respond to mountain lion reports will collect a standard set of information, including eyewitness accounts, photographs, videos and any physical evidence such as hair, tracks and scat.
"We’ll be able to quantify the reports, and, in a sense, qualify them," DuBrock said.
Just because the commission has developed a standard method for tracking lion sightings doesn’t mean officials believe the animals are here. In fact, DuBrock said the new procedures were created largely out of frustration about how much time agency employees have wasted following up reports that lead nowhere.
In the past, the commission has received photographs, videotapes, tracks and scat from a variety of animals — including bobcats, housecats, foxes, fishers, coyotes and bears — that people thought were mountain lions.
Despite that, commission officials don’t completely rule out the possibility that a mountain lion or two may be roaming around out there. But if they are, officials can’t understand why a cougar hasn’t been shot or killed on a highway.

That's because the numbers are not even as close to beinghigh as bobcats or bears asI stated. But they do not rule them out here in Pa.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I laugh every time I hear of people seeing tracks. I hunt in one of the most heavily populated cougar areas in the US, and most people that I take hunting can not tell the difference between wolf, dog and cougar tracks. There are differences that most will not pick up on. I grew up hunting in the southern teir and these rumors have been going on for years and years. As far as cougars controling the coyote population, I dang near peed myself laughing when I read that one. I suppose that one got by the insurance companies who introduced the coyotes to control the deer population. If a cougar and coyote got in a tussle over a fresh kill, The cougar might kill the coyote, but I have yet to see one chasing a coyote down. Cougars will not waste their time and energy chasing and killing something that is of no benefit to them. I am not saying that cougars may be there or not and will remain neutral on that topic, but I do however get a real kick out of reading these cougar threads and the theories that some come up with!!!! Some are blessed at spotting cougars I guess, because I see one on average every 6-8 years, and log 50+ days a year in the Idahoback country. Let me know how you do it becasue I would like 1 or two more cougar rugs on the wall. Have a great day!!

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

Is there one person on here who said they see a cougar every time out or was it that a few people have seen one before in the wild?You live in Idaho and see one 6-8 years,What is the population of cougars out there compared to a handful here in each eastern state? Of course your not goanna see many sightings of them here as you do out west. The point is,People come up with,No road kills or hunter shooting one yet in the eastern states.Well you put as many here in this state as out west,I guarantee there will be road kills and hunters shooting them. With only a handful that is ridiculous to even say anything like that. Do the math,2 0r 3cougars in a state what are the chances of one of them being killed by a hunter or vehicle or filmed on a cam?

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I wonder if the Mountain Lion skeptics believe in God?

My sister is an Atheist. Explain to me how I can prove to her there is a God.

By the way, she lives in northern PA and believes there are ML's there. She says with all the sightings and reports of tracks that gives you something to go on. She keeps asking me for some evidence of a God.

What do think I should tell her?

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I know there are several stories about mountain lions in NYS... the DEC's stance is since their is not sustainable population they do not exist. Proof will only be a dead animal.

Now one story I do believe is one my father has told me several times... he was an avid coon hunter when he was young... so this story would be back in the 50's - 60's I am not certain. But he has told me of a story of a hunt (with his brothers) in Catt County... that they had thought they had tree'd a very large coon. They were only carrying a 22 LR pistal (his old service side arm) and they had shotit a coupletimes... the issue was that when they shot it is screamed at them... he said that it wasa blood curdling scream. They decided then to grab the dogs and leave with haste.

On another subject... this one in Erie County back in the 70's... when I was little (6 or 7) I remember a coon hunt my father took me on where we had thought we had treed a coon back in a swampy area... I remember the dogs barking and my father putting me down next to the lantern while he approached to see what they had bayed... when he got close to the action I remember all hell breaking loose and a black bear running past me and my brothers standing next to the lantern. I believe I still have the brown streaks in my underware.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I believe in God by faith. I don't believe it's even possible to prove He exists but, again,I accept His existence by faith. I also accept that others don't share my faith and there will be nothing I can say to convince them otherwise. I consider the ml question, however, from a logical perspective looking at the evidence and don't consider it a matter of faith at all. In fact I think it's silly to even draw the comparison you have. It's not a religious question. The existence ofml's, unlike God, can be proved.So, based on the evidence, or should I say lack there of,I am of course highly skeptical. If you are trying to say that you and othersby faith believe in their existencehere in NY then there is no point debating this further. If you just believe and don't need any evidence to support that belief then by definition you will not be swayed by a logical argument so what's the point? You've made it a pseudo religion and have replaced logic and evidence with faith.

Now regarding what to tell your sister, let me suggest bringing it up in the religion forum.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I'm not sure if Big Dom is still around or not. He was / is a great guy. After he quit teaching he went back to school for mortuary science and spent his retirement enbalming people. I believe that he taught with a pistol. I guess he used to hunt with a .44 because he thought rifles made it too easy. My favorite memory of Dom was about 15 years ago Paul had a bunch of his college friends to Marlboro for dinner with his folks. As we were leaving that night, he came out to the car and said, "Remember your morality. Keep your zippers zipped."

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

Hmm, thanks for the welcome to the board. Let's see, who took it seriously...The DEC did. They sent a biologist over two hours from Albany to check it out. As for people laughing at me, well, you've got me there. My guess would be zero (come on, did you really laugh?). You don't believe that there are mountain lions in NYS. OK. I think there might be.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

poison, read through all of the past threads on this topic over the past couple of years. You will find that there are people who see them on a regular basis. For many years in a row. If there is 2-3 wandering around the entire state of new york, then why do some people see them time and time again. So my statement then holds some value. I was pointing out that in a state where the population is very high, cougars are not regularly spotted.

Besides, with the way the woodlots are lined with orange hats, I am sure that the chances of one being shot would be pretty high still with only 2-3 running amuck. Someone is bound to see one, but why the same people all the time?

If you read my statement, I am refering to all the threads that I have read on this topic and not only this one.................

Whether they are there or not, this still makes for interesting reading.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

That of course is part ofthe story.

Yes, and it's been my experience that there are a lot more people that will laugh or smile and shake their head when they hear such stories than those that will believe them and/or take them seriously. I was just curious what you thought (come on, do you really think nobody is laughing?).

Like I said, it's not a question of belief, for meit's a question of whether or not there is evidence to support the claim. All the reputable sources say there isn't so I can't help but be extremely skeptical as well.

As far as being swayed by all the stories that are told, I'm not at all. People tell stories about Big Foot, the Lock Ness monster,Ogopogo, space aliens, seeing Elvis still alive and on and on and on. When people want to "believe" something there will always be stories to support that belief. It's an interesting human phenomenon and the ml thing fits right in.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I just think people are to amazed at them to shoot one.Would I shoot one? Only in self defence. Just to prove to everyone they are here?No.
The controversy over a mountain lion in a populated state is like the terrorists reports they put out.Is it possible?Yes,anything is possible.Should we be scared?No.Should we alarm the citizens?No.Enjoy what life has given you and believe what is good.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I cannot say if there is Mt. Lions in NY, but here in Maine a couple of years ago one was caught being transported here. They believed it was for a release. As I see what others posts on here about horses and cows
being attacked it would make me think it is a released cat and not a wild one. Most released ones are from the bigger western ones. Here about thirty mile away an eastern one with three cubs had been recorded. So it gives way to attacking all trapping programs and trappers as they may catch an endangered animal. So now court challenges and all the rest of the bunk to be able for trappers to continue to trap coyotes and other predators. Perhaps the idea of being a good thing should be given more thought to. More predators means less game and less game = no more hunting as mother nature will support itself. I would think it over folks and decide truely if it would be good to see wolves and mountain lions roaming your states or not. I do not see it as being a very good thing.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

poisoner, if you want to see controversy, you should deal with the wolves here in Idaho, my friend spent 15 hours trapped in a tent by a pack of 7 wolves last week. You had better hope that it is never proven that there is an endagered species living within your borders. Even the DEC would not have any jurisdiction over the matter. The feds would move in with all of their might, as they did here with the wolves. Now I don't know of any bowhunter that is not packing a pistol into the woods. Things are getting real ugly and we cannot do a thing about it.

What really cracks meup too is the fact that your wonderful senator backs environmental bills and gun control laws, but has a city that she is over who freaks out when a coyote gets loose in central park.

I know there are people who don't shoot other creatures while out hunting, but there is too big of a percentage that just like to kill for no reason at all. I have ran across many like that. I would think that some dummy would shoot one without knowing the legalities or ramifications if they did.

The DEC may have very well been instructed to dismiss all posiblities of a couple of cats being there, for the simple fact that the feds would jump in and spread the burden of studies and proof on to the state of New York. If the cost was incured by the state, where do you think the money would come from. It would come from an increase in price in lisc. sales. So you and all the other New York hunters, would foot the bill for the endangered animal. It happened here with the wolves. The feds gave us 1,000,000 to take care of the wolves for 1 year. 300,000 went to the Nez Perce leaving us with 700,000, After the $ was gone, we had to pick up the rest or turn over all studies and control back to the feds (whatever limited control that we have so that ranchers can help save their cattle) It is an ugly mess, so just hope that the DEC never verifies their existance.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

You don't believe me that the DEC sent a biologist to check this out? Well, I'm out of this discussion.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

No need to get mad, my question to you was ..."Just curious as to how many people do you think believe you or take your story seriously vs. how many you think figure it's just bs and are laughing at you? "... so I was just pointing out that you didn't really answer it. The biologist coming to check out the tracks is just part of the story and a part that people may or may not believe you about. My bet is most people would be willing to believe that part but Idoubtmany believe the part where you said they confirmed there were ml tracks in the snow. Again, my question to you is what do you think about how your story (your whole story) is perceived by people when you tell them? What percent do you think believe it's bs? I'd guess over 1/2. Again what do you think? I'm not playing a game with you, I'm truly curious.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

check out the bobcat attacking the adult deer on the bowhunting forum. kinda puts a hole in the "mountain lion killed deer carcases" theory? eh?

discuss.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I don't have a problem with a bobcat taking a deer. Especially around here where they grow large. I just wonder how much of a deer they will eat at one time. The cat killed deer I found ten years ago had both hams gone as well as the heart and liver before the remains were completely covered with pine needles and deer hair. Ten days later something came back and ate all the rest of the meat. I wish I had measured the spread of the holes in the doe's throat so I would know for sure. At the time I just figured it was a cougar. From what I had studied about wildlife it was a cat kill for sure and no one then ever mentioned bobcats being able to kill adult deer.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

threre is proof of wolves in NY, I just left the web site, www.home.acadia.net, as for mountain lions,we call em catamount, there is still alot of wild lands in the northeast that get little if any human traffic if you will, heard alot of stories, never seen one, know some that say they have, would like to see the Pics.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

We are still waiting for barofsoap's picture on this one.

RE: I have a Pic
 

I have talked to about 10 people in the area where I live in the past year who have claimed to see them. A gentlemen not to far from here shot one and showed a DEC officer who promptly told him to leave. They will continue to deny it until someone gets hurt.

RE: I have a Pic
 

Where did this happen?

RE: I have a Pic
 

I'm one of these folks who says why not M Lions in N.Y. - BUT - what I question is where are all these folks that shot one and then after 199 story tellers get done we got a DEC officier that did this and that - no proof,no hair,no pics,witness - nuthin. Where's the Beef - Guy

RE: I have a Pic
 

Here's another twist...A local fellow claims he found one dead in the road and threw it in his truck...Before he could get home he was pulled over by a game warden AND a trooper who took the cat away from him...Allegedly it contained a COMPUTER CHIP that allowed the authorities to track it and they chased down the guy's truck before he could get it home...MY oh MY, isn't it amazing that our DEC has the capabilities and manpower to keep such CLOSE track of those pumacougars.. Seems like they'd have more to DO during deer season...Must be part of the conspiracy...

Bullchit goes Hi tech.....

RE: I have a Pic
 

I'm actually surprises they didn't go after him with the special black stealth helicopter!

Course it could have been out on a coyote drop.

Steve

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

mountain lions in ny - 11/13/2006 4:35:02 PM

So when do we get to see the picture?

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

I said I have been told by all these people that they have seen mountain lions. I just know what I have been told. I have never seen one. Many credible sources have. I am a little bit of a skeptic myself.
However, the people who claim that Mt. Lions are trained to kill coyotes are way out in left field. Sure you can train a wild animal when it is in captivity but once it gets out into the wild, it will go for the easy meal again. Personally, I have a hard time believing a mountain lion would ever have anything to do with a coyote.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

lol you think.

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

The DEC is aware that the pumacougars that they are subversively stocking to control the deer and coyote population could multiply, become too numerous andpose a threat to human life and limb...

Therefore they've taken steps to prevent such an occurence...

In order to keep the critters from multiplying, they are only stocking GAY pumacougars...

They even have a name for the program...

It's code name is " The Return of the Pink Panther"... They also have a backup plan in case this one fails...It's named " The Pink Panther Strikes Again"....This covert program is headed by some guy named Clouseau...

This is factual information...It was given to me by my Uncle Milo's third cousin's manicurist, who actually saw the documents on microfilm at his cousin Leo's Kumquat ranch 8 hours from here in East Jesus, Ohio... Next time I'm out that way to help with the kumquat harvest, I'll bring a copy of the report and post it here...

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

LMAO

RE: mountain lions in ny
 

Guys tell me there is one up behind our house in W. MA. I have been all over the acrage there and have yet to see a track. I have seen the tracks in Montana so I know what they look like. I won't beleive it until I see it myslef (or seetrack) or some credible eveidence shows up. To me it just seems odd that so many have seen them and yet no proof.

Regardless, interesting article.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0507_030507_cougars_2.html