How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Just a quick question for everybody who hunts NC PA whether resident or non-resident, I am just wondering how many of you who actually hunted in NC PA last year are not going back this year and for what; ie you hunted deer and turkey or whatever else last year in 2G, this year only turkey in 2G, etc. I am not looking to start another long-winded fight on deer populations or whatever, just looking for amounts of guys going back or not or going there for the first time, thanks, Oh and good luck to the Bowhunter's next saturday!! (I can't go, Bow went way of snapped string upon release, rather messy, did in face good too:([:@])

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

the numbers of hunters has been dropping real bad from about 2003 to now in 2g. from 1999 to 2003, lots of hunters because of all extra tags.trucks were full of meat. now that deer are gone, less hunters. friends i know from kentucky come here from 30 years now in 2g. they used to bring 16 ,now 6.why, they only hunt buck and no buck to get here like they did.its really not money to them. they said license fees is not reason. they said they can stay home and have better hunting than 2g here in pa.so, why come. this is why i feel rendell kill the deer off crowd is going to fail on their new PA WILDS tourism to replace deer hunting .maybe not, if they get barn owls going and buffalo,elk, monkeys , gorrilas,oh sproul, now you are getting nutty.what heck, everything i said is coming true, so far.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I hunted the first week of buck season as a NonRes.last yearin 2G and was unsucessful. I'll be driving back from Montana to 2G again this year to hunt bucks. Hope my luck will be better this year.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Cant speak for 2G but in 2F,some of which is considered north central,hunter numbers have been going downhill for at least 10-15 years. Especially in the rifle season. When I bought my camp in 1978, the town of Tionesta was in gridlock from the Saturday after Thanksgiving till around Tuesday night and camps were lit up all through the first week. Now it gets hard to find a hunter in the woods after about 2 PM on opening day.Most camps are dark byMonday night and the only period of high car traffic in front of my camp occurs between 10 AM and 4 PM on the first day. Allthe trucks are loaded up and headed home.All this started many years ago and has steadily declined every year.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

big sky. i live here and only saw 1 legal buck last year hunting from archery to end of muzzleloder in 2g,thats about 4 months of hunting.dont feel bad.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

i agree with you. even in bear season, very few hunters at camp.also number of hunters at camp are down to.most here that come go back same day. others pack up and leave by noon,tuesday afternoon.in good days they would leave friday,not now.also, its hard to find a crew driving deer anymore now.i asked former crews why they dont drive now.they said, sproul too many tree sitters now in middle of our drives,we are not driving that 1 deer out to them to shoot.the ones that do drive deer now do it after wednesday if they know the tree sitters are gone.boy, crews that used to come in and hunt, thousands of them.like being in vietnam and being over run with viet cong.guns going off all around you.boy, it got you warmed up quick. now, if you here 8 shots the first day in say 5 mile area ,thats something. i counted 1 time over 100 shots before 9 am the first day in my hunting area. boy, that was something.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Although I have to speak only for myself, and being a camp owner in 2G, yes, I will be back. True, the deer are not as plentiful as they once were, but if you put a little time into it, and pay some attention to what people who know the area tell you, there is still a very good chance to fill your tag.
The hunt for me in particular no longer revolves around the need or pressure to fill a tag. This comes mainly, I think, with years of hunting experience and good memories of past years and good friends. Wood smoke, the "Big Breakfasts", good harvests in past years, and the infinite stories associated with camp life are now my treasures.
The good Lord willing, I hope I will be back at least one more time. I hope you will too.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Sproulman ~ It was very quiet in the areas we hunted inlast year. We hunt bucks hard....always changing our strategies/ adjusting to conditions, changing locations,etc.and areusually successful .There are 7 of us who hunt out of a permanent camp.Last year was the first time in 32 years we all went home deerless.
As Pawildman said and I have to agree with him on this, If it wasn't for theWHOLE Deer Camp experience of being with friends you haven't seen in a whole year,the great meals,stokin the ole'woodstove,the cold outhouse,jokin around and just having anenjoyable time being inthe Pa. mountains,I wouldn't even give it thought to come back to Pa. just to buck hunt.I have plenty of those... and then some, right here where I live.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

If we still have buck tags left we will go up for rifle, deer or no deer.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

After 45 years in what's now 3A, guess I'll just keep going back until I learn better.

:)

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

(sorry if i ain't got this whole posting thing down yet but i keep trying to get format right, anyhow)

results so far Kinda interesting, but no suprising, at least on the deer hunting side, i do hunt bear up there when finances permit, however i did not know that there are less bear hunters up there now too, i guess i only noticed the difference in my area when buck season hit versus bear season, (I hunt up near the Bailey Run area in Potter County.)

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I have a cabin and some land on the edge of 2G/2E so I'll be there.
My goal is to get a buck the first day so I can hunt grouse until fall turkey comes in.Then get a gobbler.I plan on hunting bear also.
Those are my plans and I'm sticking to it.:D
Even though gas prices are falling I know people who already made up their minds and aren't going to potter for deer this year.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

you wouldnt happen to be the guy in field & stream talking about hunting camps are you??? there was a guy from montana that says he comes to PA every year.or was it bowhunter mag.? i just read them 20 min ago lol

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Nope. I read the same article in Field & Stream the other day.
Not to change the subject, but I see your from Altoona. My family worked in the PRR shops there in the late 1800 & early 1900's .

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

PAWILDMAN,I LIKE WAY YOU TALK. people like us that have seen great hunting,well,this is not it.thats why i cant kill a doe or fawn.hunters that did not see good days,they have no way to understand that killing of all these deer will be end of the good hunting as we knew it.this is why i get so mad at DOUGE,he cant help himself, pgc/dcnr has him brainwashed.douge thinks we should just pick -up and go to ohio or somewhere else to hunt.he is not QUALIFIED to know what our hunting was and tradition ,family,friends that we had hunting in crews and at camp.it is crime to see what this OVERHARVEST OF OUR DOE/FAWNS has done to our heritage and kids coming up.oh well, enough said.glad to see many think like me also,but you have to been there and done that to have view you and others have on here.i wish i could sit ,one/one with hunters that are killing off doe and fawns and tell them how it was and why it happened on our great deer hunting we had.maybe, just maybe they would pass on doe.we can only hope..

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Its like some of you said, sometimes its just not about getting a deer but getting away with some buddies.......getting a buck is an added bonus. Too bad the bonuses arent like they used to be.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Well I've been there and done that. At least since 1969. I remember the "good old days" of Pa rifle seasomn when you counted 100 shots before 9AM and there was orange in every direction and you typically saw 50-60 knee high deer bounce around the big woods like pinballs and you scoped em all hoping and praying that one of em had 3" of bone on their head or maybe even, oh my god, a Y sticking up. If you were lucky enough to see a buck you prayed that when you shot, it would fall before running past another hunter and getting shot again and claimed by the next hunter down the ridge.

Yep, those were the "good old days" andI thank god that they will likely never come back.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

NO, I NEVER SAW WHAT YOU HAVE..in the early 50,s when i started to hunt, we had a respect for others. we never had problem you had, sorry to hear that.we never shot spikes,never. at times we would get 5 to 6 buck a day,all 4 points up to 10 points.this was with open sights also, no scopes.the bad times you talk about started here in 2g around 1999 when all tags came out.it seemed that meat was driving some,not taking care of deer herd.now,mostly all are sitting in a tree waiting to see a deer. a lot dont know how to track a buck.cant learn sitting in tree.yes, your right but bad times are NOW..

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Sproulman,you're so far out in left field itisn't even funny.No one has brainwashed me.I simply know the differeance between good habitat and poor habitat.It's a shame you get angry with a guy because he sees no reason to complain.I had multiple opportunities to harvest deer last year from the first day of archery season to the last day of rifle season,many in areas where people said there were no deer.I live in 2G and i expect to have another great year with may deer sightings and another full freezer.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I don't know if you consider 3B north central but yet. We have excellent hunting there, I know of 3 different 3.5 y/o bucks that frequent the property and there are 4-5 2 year olds as well.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

What Game Land (12, 36) are you seeing this on Rick?

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Not actually on a game land but very very close to 36 and armenia mountain. Our patch is private however 2 of the bigger bucks I am seeing are on ground that is open to the public just as much as I see them on our side of the posted signs. I have glassed TONS of other deer in this area this year including several on SGL 36 that are very healthy 2-3 y/o animals. I spent a lot of time hunting armenia mountain as well when I was younger, there are lots of great deer in there if someone is willing to actually hike a bit and not sit 100 yards off the road and its all open to public. I am fortunate to have private property now but I killed all but one of my best bucks on land that is open to the public. If people aren't seeing deer where they are hunting, then hunt else where. I drive almost 4 hours to hunt unit 3B from NY because the hunting is good where I go.........and to think all sorts of people live less than an hour of where I hunt which has publicground very closeand complain about no deer. :eek:

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

My group of 3 is not coming back for the first time in 8 years. We have been through the "you will get a deer" in a week of bow season, to last year, nobody took a shot.

We hunted 2G in Potter Co. We always went for the first week of bowseason. We stayed at a set of cabins that when we started were 100% full with long time customers and the associated bed and breakfast was also full. Last year, b&b was empty, as were 2 of the 6 cabins. None of those hunters are coming back this year.

I am 100% sure that given time to scout and more time to hunt we would have filled our tags. However, being non-residents, with a 9 hour drive to get there, that isn't a realistic option. We travelled to PA for a week of getting away to a beautifull area with a good chance at seeing and shooting deer.

We decided to not go back due to several things:
- last year none of us got deer, one guy didn't see one. Year before for 3 of us, we took 2. When we started going 3 of us would take at least 3. However we had seen an improvement in bucks taken, when we started you rarely saw a buck and if so, probably a spike, we have taken 2 8pts in the two years prior to last year.

- doe permits. We could not get them in 2G, last year we did not get any due to them being sold out, we did get DMAP and did get doe permits for the area just north of 2G. This year with reduction in 2g permits, we didn't bother.

Like I said, if I lived there or could even spend some serious time scouting, I am sure I would have filled my DAMP and buck tag in the areas we built several years learning. But now, bucks only, combined with fewer deer in total, we decided it just isn't worth it.

It's a shame, it was a good trip and we may try again in a few years, we will be watching to see what PA does.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Here's how I see it. I've been hunting the pine creek area of Lycoming county for the past 15 years and our camp has been in our family since 1890. My great great grandfather used to hike to the same building every year before there were even roads, just train tracks and there is no reason for me to stop hunting there today. Our camp sleeps 32 people and come hunting season we don't have an open bed in the place. We have more fun than I could have all year and even manage to get a few deer. As far as deer numbers I have actually seen more deer around the slate run area than I have in years past. Last year was agreat harvest for us up there and we managed asix point 3eight points and aten point. As far as bear numbers dropping...well, you sure as sh!t could fooled me. This past summer we counted nearly 15 different bear in our yard and harvest number have been climbing. The way I see it, the more hunters that don't come back up because of the declining deer and bear numbers the better. Wait a minute, what am I saying? Forget this whole post, what I meant to say was "you're absolutely right, I haven't seen a deer in the tiadaghton state forrest for years and as for bears...what's a bear?:D:D

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

deerarevery few in 2g.scouting this year has been unreal.everytime i go out to spot for my buck,others are there. more scouting this year than i have seen in years.i have to park my ford truck a distance from where i hunt.if not, they are all over me.same in turkey season.that tells you deer arevery few.most of nice bucks i am seeing, i saw 11 bucks last week, all different ones.4 were running together. only 2 were on STATE FORESTLAND.9 were on PRIVATELAND.same with doe.everytime i come to privateland, 6 or 7 doe.then i go for miles, no deer ..someone said there group is not coming back this year to 2g .many are not coming.they have better hunting at home.i know 12 that are in group and they are not coming back to 2g.they are coming to pa. but not to 2g,they are going elsewhere in pa.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

3B here too, lots of great bucks around. Better and better.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I too was hunting in parts of 2G and 2F by the early sixties and what I saw sure was a lot closer to what BTBowhunter observed then the way Sproulman remembers things.

I too remember daylight arriving on opening morning and thinking my goodness there is no way you could shoot at a deer because of all the hunters. That was because all of the hunters in the state had to come to the north central third of the state because that is the only place that had huntable deer numbers even if the majority of the deer did only weigh 40-80 pounds.

I also remember seeing dozens upon dozens of antlerless deer running back and forth past hunters all day long with almost no change of seeing a buck bigger then a small fork antler.

I also remember hunting turkeys in those same big woods areas when there were few hunters and darn few deer moving around or being seen, much like it is today when I hunt turkeys in those same mountainous locations as the days of yore.

What has changed the most is the lack of hunters coming north and running around moving deer past other hunters all day. That is probably mostly due to the increased deer numbers over the other two/thirds of the state that was void of deer back in those good days that some of us old timers remember.

For many the past is like a grammar lesson, they find the present tense and past perfect. For some of us though we have been seeing the changes while also looking for and striving to understand the reasons for the changes.

Dick Bodenhorn

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I have hunted the 2F area for the past 22 yrs we have a perm. cabin and it has been in the "Family" for well over 30 yrs and I don't care who says what the deer numbers are so far below 10 yrs ago it isn't even funny it is down right scary and sad. This will be the first yr that I will NOT be giving the PGC my money to ruin the PA wildlife. I was in full support of the AR and still am but there overall deer reduction idea is pure BS. Being a non Res. for the past 11yrs there was many of them in the old system that I wasn't able to get a doe tag and that never bothered me becuase I would sit a stand and see deer all day. And I am sorry to break your little fantasy world bubble of your RSB but the lack of seeing deer has nothing to do with less hunters. I used to hunt up deep in what we call Gillias run (next hollow east of Big Bear run acroos the river) During gun season yes you used to see alot of the orange army but I never saw another hunter in there bow hunting but I used to see anywhere from 50-100 deer sitting in a stand all day. Most were not in bow range but I always had deer moving around that ridge. The last couple of yrs I was lucky if I saw 1-5 deer a day. Watching the same big Oak ridge that was full of acorn and would of been full of deer if they were still alive. I do still plan on driving up to spend my weekend with the guys as I have done since I started hunting and I might have to let these Educated Idiotsruin our wildlife but I don't have to let them ruin my camp life. I personaly know of 27 other people from Ohio that I either hunted with or work with that are refusing to buy a license in PA and some are even refusing to come over there at all anymore. Most including myself are hunting OH and WV this yr and prolly from now on since they seem to understand how to manage a deer herd. These are from my personal viewings and my personal opinions and of those opinions of people I speak with.

Trytan74

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

How's the habitat around the Portland mills area?

It's funny you mention Ohio.I hunt private posted land in Ashtubula county that has very limited access.On a good dayI may see 5 or 6 deer a day.I don't do much hunting in 2F butI do hunt 2G on SGL 77where it borders 2F.I still see plenty of deer.In fact,I always see more deer around this area than I do when I huntinOhio.How many deer deer some of you need to see to have a successful day?I never heard so much whining and complaining in my life.Iknow a couple people that live and have camps just past the old game school.None of them are complaining about no deer.

Anyone that thinks the lack of pressure isn't having an effect on deer sightings is simply out of touch with reality.On top of that,last year we had a huge mast crop.A well fed deer is a tough animal to hunt because they don't have to move to find food.Without anyone pushing them around,sightings will surely be less.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Ghosts of dead deer past are even harder to hunt.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I must be sseing lots of ghosts around this part of 2G then.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Ain't that the truth!

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Depends what part of the state we're talking about.Better yet it depends on big tracts of public land compared to private land with limited access.The tusc forest in perry county has alot of area with 5 DPSM.It doesn't matter how many hunters you have there most aren't going to see a tail.Same goes with 10-12 DPSM.Most state land is close to that number so yeah there's going to be quite a few folks seeing few or no deer.It's not realistic to think all the hunters in an area are going to find those tiny pockets holding a few deer.Besides if they did,1-it would be two crowded2-they'd kill the few deer that are left.You can have a million man orange army but if the numbers are below say 15 DPSM sightings are going to be few and far between.How many of them will get shot before others even get that chance to see them?Low numbers are the reason for few sightings.Low hunter numbers now reflect that.It just isn't feesable for a fellow to drive 4 or 5 hours to hunt 5-10 DPSM in say Tioga state forest.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

IGINAL: germain

Depends what part of the state we're talking about.Better yet it depends on big tracts of public land compared to private land with limited access.The tusc forest in perry county has alot of area with 5 DPSM.It doesn't matter how many hunters you have there most aren't going to see a tail.Same goes with 10-12 DPSM.Most state land is close to that number so yeah there's going to be quite a few folks seeing few or no deer.It's not realistic to think all the hunters in an area are going to find those tiny pockets holding a few deer.Besides if they did,1-it would be two crowded2-they'd kill the few deer that are left.You can have a million man orange army but if the numbers are below say 15 DPSM sightings are going to be few and far between.How many of them will get shot before others even get that chance to see them?Low numbers are the reason for few sightings.Low hunter numbers now reflect that.It just isn't feesable for a fellow to drive 4 or 5 hours to hunt 5-10 DPSM in say Tioga state forest.

[/quote] germain, the true meat hunter will go to great lengths to get that meat..ones i know are going to philadelphia area and up to new york state..they are getting motels etc. most of these i know are only interested in meat.when the deer were a plenty here in 2g, they used to fill their pick-up trucks.they would use every tag they had in their group.now, no deer here so they are hunting elsewhere..the cost they are spending, heck they could but 5 steers for what it cost.its not the SPORT OF HUNTING they are doing,its the disease of MEAT.. at any cost, it just does not make sense to me..this is why i say deer will NEVER come back UNLESS doe permits are reduced and 1 deer and you are done,buck or doe..if not, these hunters will carry and use every tag they can get their hands on..only way to stop them is 1 deer and you are done.. then, if they are in woods with gun trying to fill all those tags ,they can be arrested..but,the pgc has them addicted now,what the heck, they could legally kill 4 or 5 doe..its real hard to stop doing that..sorry i rambled again,sportsmen are staying put here or giving it up..the meat hunter is going to where he can fill all those tags..

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

The problem with those guys going to philly and pittsburg is that they'll have a heck of a time finding places to hunt.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

germain, you are right..its getting hard to hunt here in 2g also because hunters are no longer just going out in hunting area they did for years do to lack of deer..if they see a deer today, thats where they hunt..you can drive for miles and not see a car or hunter,then all of sudden, 10 cars in 1 spot,why, they spotted those deer there..archery hunters are telling me that they cant even hunt anymore on weekends ..they said if they see your car, they pull over, grab bow and 3 of them start walking towards each other at 7 am in morning..they say they spook everything..same with turkeys, you better hide your car good..there is plently of places in 2g that you will not see hunter all day,wayback and close to road,but you wont see deer also but you will not be bothered..its even getting bad on privateland.. people are tresspassing and neighbors on privateland start their 4 wheelers at 7 am and ride roads spooking the deer..then you look over and guy is waving at you from his treestand.. i go over and say,hey friend, you know you are on my privateland,answer, oh i thought this belonged to barney google,he said i could hunt here..well, there goes your day hunting and people like this on your land,waving at you like their your good ole lost buddy,ha..

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

It sounds like you should move.In all the years I've been hunting,I've never witnessed any of the things you descibe.In fact,I can't remember the last time I saw another person be it another bowhunter or touist from Philly while I was in the woods bowhunting.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

I will be back at the same camp that our family has hunted from for the past 50 years. I will be in the same standi have been sitting in for the past 15 years.

I have honestly been seeing more deer at my location since ARs went into affect that i was seeing previously.

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

its just starting douge because hiking and other sports are being pushed now..2 camp owners like to walk.they aked me if they could walk accroos my 100 acres of land,i said no problem..at 8 am ,monday of archery last year, here they come.. well, their went my hunting..then neighbor fires up his 4 wheelers or chain saws..so, its actually getting worst on privateland now,thean on sfl..thats where deer are ..take a walk after season is over in jan.hikers are out.. i love to hike also, i do it a lot but i carry my pistol..well, you want to see big eye balls, where a pistol ..very different people now in woods..i se day you wont be carrying gun in certain areas or at certain times of year..then when 1 of your cougars or mountain lions attack, no gun..well,you get point..not very funny..but could happen..we just had bobcat in last few years here attack a friend of mine..lucky he had his gun.. the bobcat had DOCUMENTED RABIES..anyhow,things are changing do to lack of deer..lets hope we can all stick together ,stop this doe and fawn killing,and increase our numbers NOT decrease them..without deer,our numbers will go lower..this is why i suggested a 3 day hunting license at half the price,pgc laughed at me..many wont pay price of license as they dont hunt more than a couple days, usually first 2 days after thanksgiving week. hell, we have 5 day fishing licenses..this would increase our numbers..they laughed at ole sproul on that one, ha.. take care..

RE: How many PA hunters not going back to NC PA this year
 

Once again.my experiences are far different than yours.I spend an enormous amount oftime scouting the state forests,and SGL's around here,especially after hunting season ends.In all that time,I've never encountered one single solitary person that was just out for a walk.