RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

Excellent point! I guess I was thinking larger scale and everybody doing it. Certainly if everyone is passing does, the total population grows geometrically. This of course is not a sustainable strategy given theinevitable over population but the mathmatical certainty that there will indeed be more of both bucks and does if does are not killed is unavoidable.

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

"Back when a hoe was a hoe, coke was a coke, and cracks what you were doin', when you were crackin' jokes. Back when a screw was a screw, the wind was all that blew, and when you said "I'm down with that" well, it meant you had the flu. I miss back when...I miss back when... I miss back WHEEEEEENNNNN..."

I miss Back when too, DD.
I do not miss "back when" as far as deer hunting goes.
Sure, I miss hunting as a kid with my Dad and Pap and the wonder and excitement of it all. But the hunting was really crappy then (mid-70's).
Very disheartening to a young hunter to see 35+ deer in a day and NONE have horns. My arms used to get fatigued from scoping out malnourished bald heads all day.
Just think what a difference it would have made "back when" if guys made a concerted effort to lay off the BB's. We wouldn't even be arguing about deer management today. The overpopulation would not have hit, and so many would not be spoiled today.

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

144,000 spikes and forkies in 1975.
120,000 bucks from six points to sixteen points, in 2005, AND the spikes and forkies are still there for next year.
What's your point aside from there is none?

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

When exactly did that take place?
This was from the morning of opening day and all the way through.

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

Back in the 70's [don't know today] the PGC said that 80% of the antlered deer were harvested the first day of gun season and 80% of those were taken before noon. And rememberyou weren't allowed to shoot a doe in the antlered season. It's really not suprising to see such a high doe to buck ratio after the first day. When you are killing buck at such a high rate and protecting doe the doe to buck ratio is going to sky rocket regardless of what the ratio was before opening day. If you didn't score on the first day you were bound to make the observations many of you mention. When you are talking about doe/buck ratios you really have to take into consideration WHEN. The doe/buck ratio is dynamic and it changes the fastest on opening day of gun season where it sky rockets and next big change is the spring time when the new bucks are born and the number plummets.

Though interesting, I do think we're getting off the point of the threadthough. Have a great day gentlemen. I'm off for some pre-season scounting. It's a beautiful day!

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

I agree with you again Sylvan and deerfly.The poor B/D ratio was always a perception that people had that was innacurate.The preseason b/d ratio was never worse than 1/3 and most likely closer to the figure deerfly posted.However,the b/d ratio changed drastically after the first few hours of opening day,Fortunately,it always went right back up again the following spring.

It doesn't do diddly squat to pass on a bb if you shoot a mature doe in it's place.I don't see how anyone can even argue that.A dead bb lying in the snow or one that was never bornhas the same outcome,a deer that will never live to see it's first rack.

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

If you are implying that we saw the same few antlerless over and over I can assure you this wasn't the case. My second year, my Dad andI had a group of baldys walk past us on a bench. We counted 21 deer in that line. I admit it was exciting to see them but we were hunting for bucks, and there were none to be had. Nobody saw a legal buck on that trip. We had 8 hunters in camp that year and we hunted the first two days, hard both days. We always hunted dark to dark when we went back in the mountain, because it was a long trek to get there from camp. We hear stories today of groups seeing no bucks and it is put forth like some doomsday scenario, but it was common for us, way back "when".

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

DougE you are correct when you say that the odds are that killing a mature doe takes a future antlered deer out of the picture. That can't be disputed. But think about this, when you take out a BB, you subtract one from the buck population, period. When you take out a mature doe, chances are that you subtract two does and one buck from the population.Considering the demand on our bucks, what you've done is help keep the BD ratio where it belongs.

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

I'll pledge it because I didn't even buy a antlerless tag. Antlered buck, preferable 2.5 years or older with a bow or nothing for me. We'll see.

RE: How many Pa guys will pledge........
 

I'm on board. I wish the guys I hunt with were too, they shoot anything and takepoor shots.