RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

For a person to venerate animal existence equal to that of man, or to place animal needs above human needs is pushing the limit of God's design.A human needs to feel free..When these illegal searches are done because of an animal it is against Gods design..You are saying and proving that animals have the same rights or even morethan humans do when you carry out these illegal acts of searches without a warrant for an animal search... But for the search of someones trunk fordrugs ora corpse of a human, a warrant must be attained from a court if it was on hear say???? And you are saying that no cause is needed to check a trunk or persons possessions on them for an animal... Maybe this is why all the money problems and corruption comming outand the dislike for the PGC.... God works in mysterious ways.... No animal has the same rights or more than any human...

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

Hey, I’m always up for a good challenge:

PA’s Child Sexual Exploitation Unit (only 3 people) - Since March 2001, it has had a total of 80 arrests and has a 100% conviction rate to date.
The link to this info is: http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=626


We’re are most in definitely in total agreement about the website. But, unfortunately it is really only the place us hunters have to look up things. If you will note, most of my comments in this thread and the other active PA thread, have been addressing things that I could not readily find orare woefully out-of-date on the PGC website:

1. Inability to find Predator Population trends, which I finally did stumble across, after much difficulty, only to find that no data exists past 2004.
2. Lack of links to or data for “deer exclosures” state wide.
3. Current revision status of the on-line regulations
TITLE 34 Game and Wildlife Code
An unabridged listing of Pennsylvania Game and Wildlife Code
*** Updated November 22, 2004 ***
4. Problems finding current “conviction Rate” and "complaint rate" data.
5. No “mission statement”.
6. And lastly (a new one), the real clincher: No visable “copyright” statement.

Since I accepted your challenge, I challenge you to personally see to it that item #2 is addressed, that a statewide listing of all Deer exclosures is placed on the PGC website (ChuckS & I had some good discussions further back in this thread as to how to make this a viable tool). Of course you may want to mention the others as well, especially the last two !

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

I agree that all of those things would be nice to have at our finger tips.

If you come up with the money to hire someone to sit down and catalog all of the exclosures and in enclosures in this state and then pay someone to put it all on the web site it would be a great addition.

I suppose you could probably do that for something less then a million dollars.

Did you happen to notice how the Game Commission never seems to have enough funding to get even the most important tasks performed or to conduct some of the very important wildlife research projects needed in this state?

You want us to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of the agencies limited funds to tell people where to go look at fences instead of managing wildlife populations?

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County[/b]

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

That works out to an average fine collected of about $172. Maybe the reason that there arent more complaints is that most simply pay their fine because its not worth their time to fight "city hall".I cant think of too many who wouldnt lose more than $172 if they took off work to travel many miles in some cases, to even bother with a hearing.Even amerelyaverageattorney costs more than $172 per hour


In my 49 years on this earth, my personal experiences with any law enforcement officers at all has been either traffic stops or being checked by a WCO or PFCB deputy or their deputies while hunting. boating or fishing.
In the case of traffic stops, some of which I was guilty ofand I got a ticket for, the officer was courteous and professional every time except once.

In the case of fishing and hunting stops,however, theVAST majority of stops haveresulted in my walkingaway talking to myself because of the accusing "Barney Fife" type of attitude from the officers involved
I find it peculiar that while I've never been charged with any game law violation of any kind, I've come away from virtually every encounter with the PGC or PFBC completely exasperated by the unprofessional behavior or the "guilty till proven innocent" attitude. I will say that all of the jerks have been deputies and not "regulars" The attitude of the paid officers of either was several notches above their deputies but not anywhere near as professional as the average traffic cop.

I'm sorry but from what I've seen, the PGC's deputy force is ill trained, unprofessional, and generally full of negative attitude from the getgo.
My impression ofPGC deputies more than once has been that this guy must've been bullied as a kid and now he's got a badge and by damn he's gonna get even with the rest of the world.

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

Don Madl was a deputy. Vern Ross was a deputy. I have to wonder if they took the full trainingcoarse?

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

There are two issues that hunters have a problem with, and it's real not B.S.:

1. Having your vehicle searched for no other reason than you are a hunter. I have had this happen It's not B.S. and this IS a violation of the Constitution of the United States. Please answer this question: When is the last time a police officer searched your vehicle for no reason? The answer is NEVER.

2. Being asked over and over agin to see our hunting or fishing license (which is displayed in plain view on our backs) for no reason. This has also been done to me while hunting and fishing at least 5 or 6 times in the last 2 yrs and this is not B.S. Please answer this question: When was the last time you were asked by a ploice officer to see your drivers license for no reason? Again the answer would be NEVER.

By doing the two things listed above you ARE harassing hunters and become hated. Other than that I have no issue with Game Wardens doing their job.

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

Like I said, the PGC can improve their pr immensely by simply eliminating the common practice of questioning hunters and checking a hunter's license for no other reason than to check. I doubt it willhappen though as R.S.B. has made it clear that WCO's like him as well as the PGC values the slight law enforcement advantage that comes with this practice more than they value the public's perception of them.

Actually, R.S.B., as you asked for ideas to help improve the PGC image I will also add another one for you. It's probably not a good idea for a wco to come on an internet forum and defend a practice that is clearly very unpopular. Based on what I've seen here, theres a good chance you're doing more harm than good.

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

So you think it is better for people that have no idea about the truth of the issues or what the real facts are to just come on these sites and spout off a bunch of nonsense and rumors then it for an officer to come on here and provide the facts around the rest of the story.

Do you really and seriously think it would be a benefit to the honest hunters and the resources of the state if WCOS didn’t check hunters unless we had already seen them commit a violation?

I will tell you right now that every WCO out there gets far more major violators by starting out with a simple license check that reveals evidence of something major. The three hardest things in the world to put together at the same time are a Game Warden, a violator and the animal they are trying to kill. You can always put two together but the third at the right time is a real challenge. What we do is to benefit the honest hunters by maintaining a reasonable degree of voluntary compliance. Take away license and bag checks and that reasonable degree of voluntary compliance will begin to deteriorate until honest hunters have most of their opportunities for success stolen by the dishonest hunters.

I think you would find that the vast majority of the hunters not only want the WCOs doing reasonable field checks because they know it helps protect the future of the sport and the resources they value. Fortunately even the courts recognize that fact. We also recognize there are always going to be a few radicals and anarchists that just don’t want any government influence in anything they do and are very vocal about it. Some of them will even tell outlandish lies to discredit both the laws and the officers.

What I see is that this site seems to have a lot more of those radicals then any other site I have ever visited. Their presence here is probably due to the fact that I recognize some of the people posting here as those that have been banned from the other sites they used to visit. The reason they were banned from other sites is because they were too radical for normal site users.

I would rather suspect that if we had an opportunity to check the criminal history on some of the radicals posting on here we would soon learn why they are so anti-enforcement. I suspect that is also the biggest reason they desire to stay anonymous.

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

It seems like you are just whining that you need this to get your job done. I wouldn't worry so much -- ordinary LEO's manage to fill the jails without resorting to police-state tactics.

Quote:

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ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
Do you really and seriously think it would be a benefit to the honest hunters and the resources of the state if WCOS didn’t check hunters unless we had already seen them commit a violation?

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Actually, with opinions like these, I think you need retraining in the rights of persons. It benefits all of us when when government officials obey the constitution -- a concept that you seem to have trouble with.

Quote:

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I would rather suspect that if we had an opportunity to check the criminal history on some of the radicals posting on here we would soon learn why they are so anti-enforcement. I suspect that is also the biggest reason they desire to stay anonymous.

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County

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Here is a perfect example of desperation: call a name, make a slur!

Anonymity here protects you, because if you knewposters' names and publishedthem in the context ofwhat appears to be a libelous statement implyingcriminal records, you'd be paying for the next twenty years!

As it is, you are not the keeper of "Truth". I would characterize you more as one enamored of half-truths. You stated that the courts constantly upheld these laws but ignored that 34 Pa. C.S. 904 (must ID yourself) was thrown out as "unconstitutional on its face under the4th Amendment."

http://www.courts.state.pa.us/opposting/cwealth/out/65cd01_5-24-02.pdf

RE: A question for R.S.B.
 

"RSB", what the he!! is the matter with you? (Unless you are on medication) Who are you to judge us? What gives you the right to label anyone on this forum "radicals and anarchists ." It's obvious by your statement "We also recognize there are always going to be a few radicals and anarchists that just don’t want any government influence in anything they do and are very vocal about it." that you are not alone in this type of maligned thought. If this is what you and your agencytruely believe, then it is you who are the "radical."
You really need to read the United States of America's Constitution.
(Do the world a favor, throw away those black Jack Boots and burn that copy of Mein Kamph you've been reading.)

Now, I must ask you,... how does it feel to be labeled?

"I would rather suspect that if we had an opportunity to check the criminal history on some of the radicals posting on here we would soon learn why they are so anti-enforcement. I suspect that is also the biggest reason they desire to stay anonymous."

I'll have you know that I do not have a criminal record. I have never been cited by a Game warden. Go ahead, check me out. I'm sure you know my name. If you don't, just ask Mike Schmit. I give permission for him to enlighten you. And while your at it check my military record. You'll find that I've engaged more anti American "anarchists" for this nation in mortal combat than you have teeth in your slanderous mouth.

Maybe it's time for you to retire and live out the rest of your life in a place where people think just like you do. I would suggest......MOSCOW.