RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

Speaking of conspiracy theories, a little bird told me today that the USP lawsuit has been heard and that it appears that it is going to stick.

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

If I shot an 83lb coyote,I'd be getting a second opinion on what it was exactly.You never know but I have a hard time believing that without at least seeing some kind of verification.I've seen several 40 lb coyotes both dead and aliveand let me tell you,an 80 pounder would be huge.I would say there would grounds for some type of study but there has to be bodies to study.How many of these 80lb plus coyotes have the PGC or any other biologist examined in Pa?I remember the 115lb coyote that was killed a few years ago near Friendsville.I guess that doesn't count considering itturned out to besomeone's neutered pet wolf.So without proof,the only thing we have are some large bears.I guess the only one that has that answer is Gary Alt himself.Maybe he was secretly breeding our bears with grizzlies.

I hopewe get to hear the testimony from the United Spike Shooters of Pa.I'm sure it will be worth a laugh or two.One of there biggest arguments about the lack of regenerationsettles around acid rain.I'm really eager to see how they explain all the regeneration behind the fences in this part of the state.I guess acid rain doesn't fall behind a fence.

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

Yes I have seen where the USP has blamed the lack of regeneration on acid rain.In fact,I've seen them claim that several times.I even talked with one of their directors at length about a year ago,after they hosted a save the deer meeting.This guy wouldn't get off the acid rain kick.I asked him why the regeneration looks fine inside the exclosures and he changed the subject.

Do I know what tree species will dominate the exclosures in 20 Years?No I don't but that isn't the point.The cleacuts outside the exclosuresgenerally have nothing but ferns frowing.Deer eat alot more than just oak so that isn't all I'm concerned about.

I've seen exclosuresare18 years old.There is an understory and they're still too thick to walk through.Not surprisingly,the open woods that surround the exclosure is wide open.

If red maple and cherry dominate the exclosure in 20 years,it can be considered both a success and a failure.No one know the future value of red maplebut cherry stands a pretty good chance of being worth something.Alot of wildlife feed on dropped cherries and red maple is excellent browse.Since red maple should be growing in the shrub layer,it should provide food inthe fall and the winter for deer.I've seen them gorge themselves on red maple leaves many times in the fall,just as the leaves are getting ready to drop.If one was just interested in oak regeneration,they would probably consider that a failure.

DCNR fenced in a 100 acre clearcut very close to where the infamous 126 dpsm count was done.They took the fence down 2 years ago.It's as thick as can be but you'll be hard pressed to find an oak tree in that area.Several years of drought in the early stages of that exclosure killed most of the oak seedlings.During that time,red maple took over and now it's primarily a red maple stand.Is that a bad thing?Unless I'm mistaken,the concentration of deer in that small area was around 40 dpsm.Had they not fenced that clearcut,we'd most likely be looking at a big herbaceous opening in the middle of the forest.

I agree 100% that the forests are changing all accross the east coast andbecoming more dominated by red maple and black birch.I also agree that the deer can't be blamed for this on their own.Lack of fire has certainly played a role along with past forestry practices.However,when you cut an area and nothing grows until you put a fence up,you have too many deer.Unfortuanately,that's the case accross much of the northern tier.The good news is,it's starting to change now.A guy from this board sent me a PM a few weeks ago when the FLIR count came out.He was looking for a new place to hunt and wanted to check it out.This past Sunday,he drove all the way up from Lancaster and I showed him and his Father a bunch of places to hunt on public land and one place on private land where I figured he's easily get permission to hunt.Hopefully he'll weigh in and talk about habitat in this area.I showed him places that where cut prior to herd reductions and there's nothing but beech and striped maple growing.The more recently cut areas have excellent regeneration and more deer as a result.i showed him places with oak regeneration that's about three years old and it's never been cut.I showed him a recent clearcut near my house where all the stump sprouts are making it past the deer.Good luck finding a stulmp more than 5-6 years oldthat's sprouting.I showed him a huge area where the sasaphrass is growing like crazy.Again,it didn't exist 5 years ago and it was never cut.You guys can spin this anyway you wantto say other factors are at play effecting regeneration.I'd say I agree with you but the habitat was so severly impacted around here,drastic herd reductions where badly needed.Alot of factors were at play but deer where the single biggest problem.Now that the herd is down,the forest is strting to recover and no,it isn't because the growing season got exteneded by another two months since 1999.

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

So tell me "DougF" how many fawns does an 800 pound bear eat?

Also, how many other states (any state) kill as many 700 and 800 pound bears as does Pennsylvania?

You know as well as I do that many coyote kills go unreported just as over 60% of all deer killed in Pennsylvania go unreported. So why can't we be killing 70 and 80+ pound coyote hybrids in Pennsylvania?

Remember the woman from the Pitttsburgh suburbs who was partially eaten by her Wolf/Dog pets? The PGC is trying to track down the offspring of these animals so they can be destroyed. One can only wonder how many of their offspring were released into the wild when their agressive behavior could not be controlled? Could these critters be inbreeding with the coyote hybrid population thus increasing the size and weight of the coyotes in Pennsylvania?

Just because no one killed an exceptionally large animal during the contest is not proof that these don'tanimals exist. One would think the PGC would have a much greater interest. Then again, they eat deer and that will certainly aid forest regeneration. And forest regeneration isPGC/DCNR "Job One!"

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

So the womans dogs puppies were released into the wild where they bred with coyotes causing mutant dog / wolf / coyote hybrids? How many of these things escaped anyway???

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

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RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

I'm sure that the PGC Reps on this thread will be glad to expand on the subject matter. It's obvious that the juviniles have entered the room andreasonable discussion has ebbed.

See ya.

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

hahaha!

RE: Here ya go, conspiracy buffs.
 

What does the size of our bears have to do with anything?So we have big bears.We have a short season and you can't hunt with dogs or bait.Alot of bears get to live out very long lives in thick rhodedendrum swamps.I don't see a conspiracy there.My buddy killed a bear last spring in Montanna that has a skull over 21 1/2 inches.Very few bears that big are killed in Pa.How many fawns does an 800 lb bear eat?I would say less than a 200pounder would eat.

I guarantee that most coyote kills go unreported.However,an 83 pounder would most likely be big news.The 115 lb coyote that turned out to be a pet wolf sure was big news all over the country.It was so big that New York tried to claim it as theirs.Again,without bodies,how can they study the issue?Will escaped wolf/dogs breed with coyotes?I have no idea but that incident just happened so I doubt there's a big influx in the coyote/wolf population.If you remember,I never said it wasn't possible.I simply said that the PGC wouldn't be behind it and I'm not aware of any coyotes that were officially weighed in at over 80lbs.It's possible I suppose but I'd have to see it to believe it and I can't imagine it being a widespread problem.No wolfs in Pa that I'm aware of for this to happen on a wide spread scale.

If the PGC was stocking coyotes,why would they give them the most liberal season and big limits of any animal in the state?Don't you think they'd want to protect their investment?They're even allowing them to be baited now.The PGC has also loosened up thebear season significantly.That should make the "deer behind every tree" guys happier.

Yep,the PGC definately wants to see more regeneration and so should every hunter that doesn't expect instant gratification.It's the future of our sport.

Just curious,do you know of wolves breeding with coyotes where the co-exist out west or do the wolves just kill the coyotes when they get the chance?I'm no coyote biologist but I've never heard of it happening.