Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I have heard from a biologist that the state is kicking around an idea that would allow two bucks per year. One with the bow, fall, extended, winter. One with the gun, buck season, permit season, and muzzleloader. If this is true, this would be fantastic in my eyes. It wouldn't be long before six and eight points were a dime a dozen. This is just what I was told, who knows how true it is?

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

that is good for all you NJ people. You will have better and more bucks in a couple years. Hope it goes through.

Brian

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

Well, I guess they are going to have to do something, and it looks like that will be it. I would rather have them cut back on the gluttonous slaughter of button bucks all winter long. That would also increase the number of bucks in the woods.

It becomes more clear every day that the sportsmans clubs of NJ have the Game Commission by the gonads. The clubs don't want to give up the opportunity to have long seasons, do big drives and kill everything that moves. So we will never see the anterless slaughter go away. Limiting to buck kill to two will not be the magic pill you seem to think it will be, at least not without eliminating the winter anterless season. It will result in more anterled deer in the woods for six-day firearm, and I'm sure you will see those harvest numbers go up. But I don't think it will translate into many more big bucks each fall. They will just be distributed more evenly among shotgun hunters. For example, a club with 60 members that anually takes about 25 deer now, will probably increase their take to 40 or 45 during 6-day firearm.

You want more bucks, and bigger bucks in the woods? It's simple, stop killing all the buttons in Jan. and Feb.. Until hunters, all hunters, change their attitude, you will not improve the hunting in this State. The Division of Fish and Wildlife, and the Game Commission, have successfully transformed hunters in NJ from wildlife conservationists to exterminationists. That is the attitude that must be changed.

I'll give you another good example. In the news release about the six-day firearm harvest, Andy Burnett is quoted as saying the deer population is about 170,000 whitetails, with 19 percent being bucks. That's bull. He is not counting button bucks as bucks. He is using the 19 percent number to justify killing so many anterless deer (which include bucks) to get the buck to doe ratio in better balance. Well, if they would stop killing so many button bucks each year, the buck to doe ratio would come into balance nicely. However, to cut back on the long gun seasons with unlimited tags would make those who want to kill 40 deer a year unhappy. And those are the same people controlling six seats on the Game Commission at this time.

Look into the regulations of the States that produce the largest deer, and many of them, each season. They all have one thing in common, one thing that is not happening in NJ. That one thing is limited gun pressure on deer. I don't think the genetics in those states are any better than many places in NJ. Take a look at the State record non-typical, scored 203 4/8, and was only 3 1/2 years old. I can show you pictures of many other bucks that grew great racks at 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 years old. We also have very good nutrition and soil quality in this State, and food availablity is only a problem in a few areas, most notably the Pine Barrens.

The one reason we will never have good quality hunting is because hunters in NJ want to be able to kill big numbers of deer every year. Plain and simple. We are all to blame. We all do have some say in how many deer are taken each year. Even if the game commission doesn't want to limit the take, we hunters can do so because we ultimately control how many deer get taken each year. Start putting pressure on your friends and club members to lose the "if it's brown it's down" mentality. Only take the number of deer you personally will consume. There are a few area's that have problems with over population, and guy's in those area's know they can afford to take a few more deer. However, I'm, writing this to all those others who hunt in the area's of the state where deer/people conflicts are not a problem. I spoke to a guy in a club that hunts in zone 31. The deer density down there is about 15 to 20 deer per square mile. They killed just under 60 deer in muzzleloader, and over 40 in permit shotgun, that was before the January portion of it even started. You know what, next year they will complain to the game commission that there aren't as many bucks in the woods any more. They will suggest something like only two bucks per year be allowed, so that they will have more targets in six-day firearm, yet they will kill another 100 deer in the permit seasons. They are already complaining because their take during buck week this year was down 40 percent from last year, but can't see that it could be because last year, hunting the same woods as they did this year, they killed 95 deer in the permit seasons. Sometimes we hunters really do make ourselves look stupid.

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

That would be a good idea. I also think that if you shoot a button buck, that deer should count as one of your bucks.

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

CrossPile was at it again, putting on drives yesturday with their army of members. Man are these guys venison hungry. I would like to see giant deer drives outlawed. They kill as much as they can so they will have enough venison for their fund raising "wild game" dinner. Isn't it against the law for me to sell you a deer? I don't see the difference if I sold you a whole deer, or sold you a processed deer that has been cooked. The difference is alot of the people who work for fish and wildlife attend this dinner, including the game wardens.

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

As far a clubs driving deer during 6 day gun I am all for it. It is the slaughterfests during permit season that is killing us. You dont see them here posting on there behalf. I know several guys who go on drives in zone 51 area and I refuse to take part in it. There answer is "THE STATE WANTS US TO" what a load of crap. As far as letting you take 3 bucks during the 3 types of season they could try 2 bucks per year period one 3 inch and above and the other a QDM buck and you decide what season you shoot them in with one doe per season for a total of 5 per year. that would be 8 deer for your table "if you could eat all that". Now that would be fair all the way around.

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

Is there really a chance that the state will limit or even end the Jan/Feb hunts?? I am growing less optimistic and am getting the feeling that hunting in NJ has taken a drastic turn for the worse and we just have to get used to it.

I cant believe the stupid a$$'s in Zone 2 that complain about the lack of deer and quality bucks when these guys bang away all Dec/Jan! Really, how many deer can a person actually use??

I hope that we all email/call/write the state as I have done and others on this board b/c we are now on the downside slope of the hunting curve in NJ.

Looking at the world from 15 feet up.

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I hope this takes effect soon MWX,,I also hope that they favor the deer. There is no need to harvest so many deer this time of year. Our club,including myself, only takes what we need...1 deer was taken so far this January. Not all CLUBS have the kill all mentality...I was a member of another club a few years back that allowed you 1 doe. That was fine with me..I have never seen so many deer on a piece of property..This was before "Earn a Buck KILL all does" took effect. It's a shame how bad things have become. I miss the days of seeing 20-30 deer during EACH season..

We will be our own demise.

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

Well, I always thought Bob McDowell was one of the good guy's. I think McGreevey is just doing his political thing by wanting to make his own appointment. Since I am on opposite sides on almost every issue with McGreevy, his new appointment scares me.

The problem is not specifically McDowell, or any one person there. The problem is that the majority of the members on the Fish and Game Council are representatives of the gun clubs in NJ. These are the people who like to be able to kill an unlimited number of deer, and have a long time to do it. Do you think they are going to vote to eliminate their extended gun seasons, and unlimited tags? The structure of how the regulations are devised needs to be changed. I'm not saying we need any anti-hunters on the Council, but the "if it's brown it's down" crowd needs to be fired.

Saturday, I had an elderly neighbor of mine call me at work to tell me there were several trucks parked at the fence to the property I post. She gave me the info and I called the local police and had them respond. He took their info and I'm going to sign complaints today on all seven of the poachers. However, after he left, they threatened to kill my elderly neighbor and burn her house down. She is a non-hunter, who I've had to work very hard on to get hunting, and hunters, portrayed in a positive light. It was working, until that. My point is that these extended seasons just invite this kind of thing. If the season was over, these guys would have stayed home. As it is, they have already hunted out their own spots, so they went looking for another. Cut back on the length of the season, and you will cut back many of these types of incidents.

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

They threatened her? I think more than trespassing is at hand NJ....

Lets see what Mcgreedy has in store...

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

NJB--I thought McDowell was one of the good guys also. I'm sure that McGreevey is an anti so it scares me a little that he is even interested in making changes so early in his tenure.

You're right about the old days with the seasons closed or winter bow only, the idiots would be at home watching football.

As far a deer harvest is concerned, I "only" took 1 7pt buck this season as my time was limited and I was hunting for QDM bucks in bow and passed on some spikes/does during ML. I personally can only use 1 or 2 deer a year for the meat as the wife wont eat it and all of my friends hunt so I cant even give it away.

Well--let's wait and see who is appointed on the Council but I hope that the attitudes change.

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

My neighbor is so frightened that I doubt that she will take any action. She was even afraid to call me if anyone else parked there. I have caught, and taken the names of, 23 people trespassing on this one piece of property this year. I've missed alot of them too. My other property isn't as bad, just 4 poachers. These people are very brazen. They park at a fenced area covered with posted signs, and just go right in. I guess a trespassing charge is considered minor by them, so I've decided to add a little twist of my own. At the end of the season, I'm going to write a letter to the editor of a few local papers. Included will be a short letter about the criminals that are infiltrating the ranks of hunters in an effort to make us look bad. Then I plan on posting the names and offenses of each individual, and lable them an outlaw. I think I'll post it here too. Maybe a little embarassment will help curb some of this behavior.

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I am charging them with criminal trespass, and a few other things. I can get pretty crearitve the 2C, especially when there are firearms involved. Committing a crime while in possession of a firearm raises it to a whole new level.

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I talked to Paul Tolerow at the show on Saturday and he seems to think that we are in for some chages with new people in charge. GOD I HOPE SO. I also got the feeling that they had no plan when they decided persue deer this way and this was all pure greed on the part of who ever decided to put this into law. I don't like to say "GUN CLUBS" because I am a member of one and we don't participate in this kind of irresponsible hunting. Its the mentality that gun hunters will kill all the deer in Jan. and Feb. Since all the bow hunters shoot the bucks before shotgun season. I have heard that a bunch of times. Hopefully some good will come this year and they stop this nonsense. Chris

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

NJB--I hope your charges stick and it gets around that you are a real son of a b!tch so these guys finally wise up. As for the old lady, maybe you can teach her to puncture tires with a pick axe? Just a thought.

Good luck everyone.

PS
I am taking my Dad out this Sat as the poor guy got skunked in NYS and NJ and missed a buck with the bow. Even though I dont like the Jan days--I know that he wants to get a doe for the freezer. We will just make sure that it's really a doe and not a button.

Looking at the world from 15 feet up.

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RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I hope I didn't make you think I am against hunting in January, that's not the case. The season isn't the biggest part of the problem, it's the attitude that many carry into it.

Personally, I think January should be a primitive weapons season (Bow or ML), with it's own buck tag, and ONE doe tag. I think a button buck should count as a buck, after all, that is how God created him. It's just like anything else; the season isn't a problem, until it's abused, and right now, it's being abused.

I was very much in favor of extending the season when it first happened. However, I never liked the idea of unlimited tags. If the State wants more revenue, make the guy's who want to kill 40 deer pay for it. Charge them $10.00 per tag. Instead of one permit for unlimited deer, charge per tag. This would benefit all hunters. First, we could drop the permit fee to a reasonable amount for residents to pay, and just issue a doe tag with it. Anyone who feels they need to kill large numbers of deer, and therefore use more than their share of the resource, could pay for using more than their share of the resource.

Along with the Primitive weapons buck tag, the State should issue 3 buck tags that hunters can fill how ever they wish. If you want to take one with a bow, ML and shotgun, you can. Or, take all three with bow, all 3 with ML or all three during gun week, even two would work this way. However, the extended gun pressure on the deer has to stop, or the point restrictions and buck restrictions will be for nothing.

I think it may be too late though. Now that they have created a monster, many people will not feel they have to obey new bag limits, and just kill what they want. Shoot, I know a few guy's that do that now, and there is almost no limits!

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I think we need to eliminate the late firearm season all together...We don't need any more confusing regulations.. Lets go back to a 3 day doe season allow 1 doe. Lets go back to shooting "a buck" only during 6 day firearm.

Bow and muzzleloader season should go back to 2 deer with one being a buck of 3pts on a side. "Unlimited doe" needs to stop now!

RE: Possible New Regs In NJ?
 

I think 2 bucks per year would be great. It would definitely increase the number of bucks. Make it 3pts or better on one side, and we're in business. Sure, it'll be abused, but those folks are abusing every law anyway.
Alot of those spikes and Y's will make it through the gun season. A lot of stand hunters will be more selective.
The shoot anything mentality makes me sick too. If a guy is allowed to take 2 bucks and 3 or 4 does, that's plenty. Some areas will be overpopulated, so hunt those zones if you need more deer.
Charging for each additional tag is a tricky business. How about areas where they give out crop depreadation permits? That's the situation in MD where I also hunt, and it's the only game law I break. Why would I buy another nonresident permit for 25$ per deer, when the farmer shoots dozens of deer every summer on the same property? Just a thought. I realize the situation is very different in most areas here.
BTW, I don't only blame these clubs, the state DOES encourage this, this is exactly what they want, a slaughter. Button bucks, hell, what about all the bucks killed with dropped antlers in Jan/Feb? A shame.

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