ButchA

NY Hunters, I have been following your threads and whatnot about the DEC blunders and the lack of deer, and worse yet the ever-growing coyote population.[/align][/align]I wrote an email to my older sister to ask for her opinion on what she knows about the DEC and so on and so forth.... Karen is big into horses and owns 8 of them (or now 9 I think) and has won ribbons in horse shows and all sorts of things. Karen is not a hunterbut she supports hunting (my brother-in-law hunts). But as a well known horse person and an even more well known Registered Nurse, believe me, she knows everybody...[/align][/align]{You see, we all grew up in Duchess County east of Poughkeepsie in the small town of LaGrangeville way back when. All these years later my sister and brother-in-law retired and bought a huge 125 acre farm in Madison County in the even smaller town of Brookfield.}[/align][/align]So anyway, I asked Karen about the coyote population and what she knows about them and all about NY State DEC. Here is what she said:[/align][/align]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/align]Hi Butch,[/align]Yes, the DEC release coyotes years ago to control the deer population and they are now EVERYWHERE, but the DEC will not admit it. The coyotes themselves are not usually a problem but coydogs (coyote/domestic dog crosses) are a big, huge problem. Coydogs are wild but they do not have the fear factor of coyotes so have been known to kill cats, small dogs and newborn fawns and even small livestock (baby goats, etc..)[/align]

The problem was far worse in Dutchess County than it is up here because there is so much open space up here. We had to get a special permit to allow hunting of them at Jeff's placeback in LaGrangeville because they were coming right up to the barn, killing all the chickens.[/align]
Now up here we hear them howling at night but we never see them. Coyotes tend to be fearful of horses so they stay away.
[/align]Karen [/align]----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/align][/align]Now ain't that some sh**?!?! Way to go, NY State... Release wild Coyotes so they can reek havoc and then breed with domestic dogs (creating coy-dogs) and then turn a blind eye. [:@][/align][/align]New York hunters, I feel sorry for you!!![/align][/align]Butch A.[/align]

IRONHORSEBH

Your sister is 100% correct.The coyotes around here<Im in northern Ulster county,Been many times to LaGrangeville.>are waaaay overpopulated.Coydogs are all over as well,hell my buddy has a stuffed one in his store.You almost cant go hunting in Esopus or the Ashokan res area in ulster county without seeing them,and I will tell you,I have seen some nasty looking coyotes to,kinda fringe rabie lookin.Ive seen them run deer many times,and a friend saw one take down a small doe during a snow storm last year.You dont dare stop looking for your deer after a less then drop shot,it wont be there for long.The DEC finally lifted the pelt tag rule,but a season still remains on an animal not many hunt around here.Iveheard local chicken farmers blame "dogs" on kills..lol.This is a serious problem in NYS.

Edited to add:They are not doing the turkey population any justice either,Ive seen many broken eggs and turkey remains all over the woods and fields.Forget grouse,they are having a hard enough time since the farms went away.The bastards are decimating the game birds and rabbits.

NY Bowhunter

I agree 100% about the yote population. I'm not sure about the conspiracy theory (wouldnt' surprise me though). One thing I know for sure though is the population is MASSIVE now.

Bionicrooster

I could be wrong but several biologists I have talked to have told me coydogs are MUCH rarer than most people think... The coydogs themselves are usually sterile and the coyotes and dogs usually don't breed with each other, at least not enough to create a big population of coydogs...

IRONHORSEBH

Im not sure of the biological satndpoint of Yotes and dogs,so I cant comment on that aspect,However,while no where as prevelent as coyotes,when it comes to coydogs here,they certainly arent suffering from "bigfoot syndrome"..lol

jhoffman

From what I have read and heard from other people as well as what I have noticed in my area. When the coyote first come into an area and the population is not very established they will breed with domestic dogs creating what is known as the "coydog" but once the population is established and healthy the coyotes would as soon kill a domestic dog as look at it. I think that they would stay away from domestic animals like chickens and stuff as long as they had enough food in the wild but I guess their not stupid either and would take an easy meal if they could.

I know the population in WNY has exploded and their seem to be as many coyotes in the woods as there are deer and you're right about the impact on turkeys I have had yotes come into me calling during the Spring turkey season more than once now and by then the NY season is over for yotes. i think the season should be eliminated and if the DEC is worried about numbers of the population just put a daily bag limit on them. and open the season up year round.

SteveBNy

I would be very interested in seeing the proof that the DEC "stocked" coyotes. Are these the ones we traded turkeys for or are they the ones that had insurance company tatoos? Hard to keep them straight.

SteveBNy

From the NYSDEC website:
http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/coyinny.htm

How Did Coyotes Arrive in New York?
There are two theories to explain the presence of Eastern coyotes in New York. The first theory is that coyotes were here before Europeans settled North America. The clearing of the forest for farms and homes forced coyotes to retreat to unsettled areas of the northeast, e.g., the Adirondack mountains. The return of the forest during this century coincided with the return of the coyote.
The second, and more widely accepted theory, is that the Eastern coyote is a relatively new species in New York. This theory suggests that western coyotes extended their range eastward, eventually forming a distinct subspecies.
Whichever theory is true, coyotes have been present in New York at least since the 1930's, and firmly established themselves by the 1970's. They are here to stay.
Coyotes or Coydogs?
The large canid which resides in New York is a true species; they are not a hybrid. The proper name is the Eastern Coyote, Canis latrans. Coyotes and dogs theoretically can interbreed to produce what is called a ‘coydog'. However, these crossbreeds have a reproductive cycle of dogs, not coyotes, and will give birth at times of the year when the pups cannot possibly survive (i.e., January). In addition, there are behavioral differences between dogs and coyotes which prevent crossbreeding from occurring. Coyotes want to mate with other coyotes and not with dogs. Coyotes are actually more likely to prey upon a domestic dog instead of mating with it. It is in this manner that dog genes are prevented from entering the gene pool of true coyotes, maintaining the two separate species. Coydogs occurred at the leading edge of coyote range expansion during the 1950 to early 1970's. The occurrence of a coydog would be an extremely rare event in New York today.

Zdeerslayer

I saw a coydog 2 weekends ago, I was in my camp in Andes NY and decided to let the e-caller call for a while at night( I was on the deck of my camp and not planning on shooting ne thing just wanted to see what cam in) and not 30 min later I look out to see this coy dog that looked like half collie hald yote.Damn thing wasnt scared of anything, and it looked like it didnt have a tail either. Ugliest thing I ever saw.

mlo3135127

100% true