mlo3135127

Good post patrkyhntr, I remember when I hunted in the mid 70's, if I saw a deer It would be a great hunt. At that Time we had few to no coyotes. So the low deer population couldnt be blamed on coyotes. I like everything you said about coyotes. I too have much respect for them. Most guys out there don't share the same feelings about them as you or I. I used to work on a farm here in centralNew York for 18 years, every Winter for over 10 years I would have afternoons off (about 7 hours) and I would follow coyote tracks every single afternoon forover 10years and I still do when ever I can. I did not carry a gun, I was only interested in what they were doing. Thiswas at the begining of ourhigh deer population( 80's) and there were deer all over the place, even back then hunters were still saying coyotes are killing all of the deer. I would track them until I jumped them from their bed, than I would turn around an follow their tracks until I followed them into the day before. Most of the deer they were eating were hunted killed (unrecovered wounded) deer. How many times during the season do you here someone say that they hit a deer but could'nt find it? Well, these wounded deer are a big part of a coyotes diet.A hunter killed deer that was cold before the coyotesfound it would last them a long time because they only pick at them a little bit at a time. Each night they would pick at one of these deer just enough to stay alive. A fresh killed deer was a different story, they would gorge themselves on it. I know so much about these animals (not from looking out my window either), it's just to bad I am such a poor writer. There is so much I that could write. I would also like to say, some of you guys wanting to kill some coyotes shouldtry trapping them. Its much easier than hunting them. I got 12 last year just keeping 6 sets going all season.

patrkyhntr

Thanks for the informative post, mlo. I am learning. I would like to learn more about trapping for coyotes at some point in time. I used to trap for muskrats when I was in high school. A friend and I had a trapline on the Susquehanna River back then. Good rat hides brought about a buck to $1.25 each, which was good money back in the 1950s. When I went away to college, we sold the traps and streatching boards. My share of the proceeds paid for a semester of college at Bloomsburg. Not today, I think.

livbucks

I'm with you about enjoying deer hunting even when you don't see a deer almost all season. When I first started hunting, we didn't have the thinsulate gore-tex boots and all that stuff. I used felt pack boots and froze to death. I was in severe pain most days, saw few deer and loved it. I saw few deer because I was constantly moving to keep warm, not because there weren't any.I think coyotes are different than deer in nature for the fact that coyotes seem more resilient. I believe they should be hunted to near non-existent levels because they can move and adapt and repopulate in a heartbeat. See a coyote-shoot a coyote is my motto. We hunt deer for enjoyment, and is the reason most hunters buy a license every year. Therefore, deer numbers must be kept at a reasonable level to provide an acceptable expectation of success. Nobody I know of buys a license every year so that they can see or hunt coyotes, just doesn't happen. Most hunters kill their first 'yote while deer hunting, I did. Some guys get into predator hunting hard core but often only after there is nothing left in season to hunt for the year. They (coyotes) deserve to exist, yes. I believe they serve the ecology best,as it is confined with the human as the primary predator, in severely limited numbers. How do we do that? Bounties.

patrkyhntr

Not to belabor the point, livbucks, but I am opposed to bounties. A bounty has the connotoation that the animal upon whom the bounty is placed is evil. Coyotes are no more evil than human hunters are. I don't think you need bounties to encourage human hunters to do what they should be doing anyway.

As far as an "acceptable" number of deer, that would vary from person to person. To one person, he would find anything less than fifty deer per day unacceptable. I don't see that many in the entire rifle season where I hunt, but find the levels I am seeing more than acceptable. The difference is that I enjoy hunting and realize that it is just that. Hunting. The world doesn't owe us a living, nor does it owe us a deer every year.

I went to Manitoba for a whitetail hunt last November. During the week, I saw a grand total of 21 deer. Two of the deer were among the biggest antlered bucks I have ever seen, but I didn't shoot at either of them because I was holding out for something better. I came home without killing a deer. Was it a great hunt? It certainly was, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Just seeing those two bucks made it worthwhile.

I am fortunate in being able to hunt a whole lot more than many are able to hunt. I missed a total of two days during the past rifle season. With that in mind, and the fact that I took three deer last year, I am not trying to say I am any better hunter than anyone else. I put more time in the woods than most, I work harder at it than most, and I have more success than most. The three things go hand in hand.

If there are fewer deer where you hunt than there used to be, it isn't the coyotes that killed them off, it was hunters. Blaming coyotes for it is just that, blaming something other than ourselves. Us hunters took over 409 thousand deer in 2001, 517 thousand deer in 2002, nearly 465 thousand in 2003, and another 409 thousand in 2004. The game commission didn't take any of them, except for a few WCOs who got a few days of hunting in. It is not possible to take that many deer and not see the population go down. What were some of us thinking? That we could do that forever? If anyone didn't understand what Gary Alt was talking about when he said the words, "herd reduction," they probably don't understand it now. You could have ten times the coyotes we have now and they couldn't kill half a million deer in a year. Us hunters did it in two weeks, more or less.

You are entitled to your opinion as regards bounties, livbucks. I just don't share it.

Windwalker7

I agree with you to a point. I understand that all animals need to be respected. I understand that coyotes need to hunt and do kill deer to eat. I do understand that hunters kill alot more deer in PA than coyotes do.

Here's what I don't understand. I always hear that coyotes only kill sick, injured or old deer. This sounds like something that came out of the anti-hunters handbook. I know that sick, injured and old deer will be the first deer to be killed by coyotes, only because they are easier to catch. Yes, coyotes do kill off deer that were wounded by hunters, but coyotes are fully capable of taking full grown healthy deer and they do it often.It would seem that the deer thatthey kill in July and August would not be hunter wounded deer.

I have family that lease a farm in Maryland. They have the entire farm to themselves. They mostly take only bucks with one or two does they allow the younger hunters to take. They usually kill 6 or 7 deer a year off of this farm. This farm use to have lots of deer. During the last couple of years they have been noticing fewer and fewer deer. They have also been noticing more and more coyotes. Just last year my brother-in-law was archery hunting and had a doe coming down the trail in front of his treestand. As he was watching the doe, it kept looking behind it. Soon he could hear the leaves rustling behind him. He got his bow ready as he expected it to be a buck, since the rut was in. The doe took off running and soon he seen why.It was a coyote that was following it. Also last season, my other brother-in-law saw 7 coyotes running together. They always seeor hear coyotes almost every time they hunt there. Every time they go when there is snow, they find tracks everywhere. They also noticed that they see very few fawns with the does. I keep telling them to get a call and eliminate a few.

I know this doesn't actually PROVE anything to some people, but it says alot to me. Yes, I too believe there should be some kind of bounty on coyotes. Some people don't think it will make a difference but I do. I know that they can be hunted 24/7 already, but they need to do something to get guys interested in hunting coyotes.


I know myself, I too just started trying to learn what I can about coyote hunting. I've been out several times this year with no succes. They are hard to hunt. It is so frustrating to go out and see tracks and sign everywhere and see no coyotes.

PA Bow/Flinter

Good point about how back a while ago deer hunting was a challenge too.
Here's a thought to ponder for everyone who is used to killing multiple deer every year...

My Dad started hunting in the mid-70's. He went out every year and it took him 25 years to kill his first deer. Would you have lasted that long?

My Grandpa has been hunting for 55 years. He has been out almost every single year...with a few missed do to active service. He took his first deer, THIS YEAR! 54 years of tag soup before he got one. Would you have lasted that long?

Sagittarius62

These threads really kill me. Coyotes are coyotes, and they do what coyotes are wired to do. They were here before us, and may be here after we are gone. They are part of the ecosystem. I don't hunt yotes, but if you do I'm all for your success. Yes, they kill deer, often young ones, and contribute to thinning the herd. It's called nature. You know, survival of the fittest, and all that. Yotes are very adaptable creatures, and have shown remarkable ability to survive in our changing landscape, as have deer. Where I hunt we have coyotes, and we have seen some evidence of their work on occasion. They use tactics that to some may seem brutal. So what? The power, beauty, and efficiency of how the natural world works is part of why I love it.

lost horn

I went to Manitoba for a whitetail hunt last November. During the week, I saw a grand total of 21 deer. Two of the deer were among the biggest antlered bucks I have ever seen, but I didn't shoot at either of them because I was holding out for something better. I came home without killing a deer. Was it a great hunt? It certainly was, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Just seeing those two bucks made it worthwhile

Why would you turn down two of the biggest bucks that you had ever seen in Manitoba, after dishing out all that money? Then come back to Pa. where we are trying to let bucks get older and bigger and kill a young buck.

patrkyhntr

It depends upon what you want out of a hunt, lost horn. I made that decision in Manitoba, not based upon how much I paid for the hunt, but what I wanted to get out of it. I have been on several hunts that were more expensive and have come home with no animal taken. It is hunting. I went there to have a CHANCE at a real boomer in the 160 plus class and was not going to take the first buck that came along. Killing something, just to say I killed something isn't that important, and the big bucks I laid out weren't either.
Here in PA, I held out until Thursday of the second week before taking an eight point. Crucify me for that if you wish. The hunting circumstances are totally different. Here in PA, I still hunt for meat. That is why I also took two does this year.

Phil from Maine

Hi here in Maine about1 year ago coyotes killed 24 deer at one time
when pushing a small deer yard into a river. Estimated a lose of
52 deer when the unborn deer were counted in.They say the eastern
coyote is a hybred cross between thecoyote and the eastern timber
wolve. So if wolves kill coyotes how did they make the new breed ?
We hear that only a few are around now as our deer population is all
but gone here in this area. So they kill a few coyotes, and then a few
more that shows up, and then a few more that shows up all in the same area. With coyote control programs it still stays the same with only a
few coyotes being seen ? I think more people should get out and see
what a few coyotes can do! Anyhow this is from a coyote control
program in a twenty square mile radius with only a few?! It's not intended to offend anyone but this is from only a few.