Legacy 357 i agree with you completely on the numbers of the small game going down because of this, but honestly thats not that big of a loss in my mind if the number of these birds are going up.

P.S. True or False could a red tailed hawk eat upto 12 mice in one night?

There are a number of things that contribute to low small game numbers here.......
Back in the "Golden Days" of PA Pheasant and rabbit hunting it just happened to coincide with all time highs in fur prices. Anyone who could set a trap in PA was trapping fox.
As a kid I heard stories of hawks shot on sight, and pole traps and other nasty ways farmers dealt with them.
There were simply less predators, the birds(pheasants) were a heartier stock, there were MANY MANY more farms and habitat was better overall......these days I don't know of many people who find it worth their time to trap, hawks and other raptors are now protected at all costs, add to that mix feral cats and an increasing coyote population and you have a very efficient killing force prowling what cover is left endlessly.
Too many IMO......that's one reason I have no problem hunting fox every chance I get. They are great sport and make for beautiful mounts if you don't wish to sell the fur.

Small game (namely Pheasants and rabbits) will NEVER EVER reach levels seen in past years.

You want a prime example?.......a buddy of mine joined on of those Pheasant Hunting/shooting clubs a few years back. Where you buy so many birds and stock them yourselves and then come back later in the day to hunt them.
He told me of one day where he put out 10 birds, and came back 4 hrs later.......in 4hrs 3 were killed by hawks, and another by a feral cat in the middle of the day. (He chased the cat off the one bird)
So that is 4 out of 10 birds killed by predators in 4hrs!!! Now try to picture the impact that killing force has on the habitat day in and day out?

our club stocks pheasants and we go out like an hour or so later.........one time the fox got 2 before we could get out.........after the hunt, i set one out by the hole and waited with the shotgun but he never came back out....

I love em


RTH been my favorite bird ever since I was about 6 years old

Yes, I see red tail hawks everywhere and bald eagles pretty much all summer as we have a nesting pair by our cabin on the susquahanna. As for the decreased numbers in pheasants and rabbits I wouldn't contribute the majority of decline to predators. Yes, when you stock pheasants alot will get taken by foxes and hawks. That's mostly due to the fact that they are too dumb to realize that they can't sit in the open in the middle of the day. My mother works for a large animal vet here in Paand had a biologist who was studying pheasants come into her office to ask a few questions.During the conversation he informed her that the real reason there is such a decline in pheasant numbers is that Farmers are getting better and better at utilizing there lands to raise crops. The fence rows are almostgone so the birds are forced to seek cover in the crop fields which are in turn harvested resulting in the death ofalot of birds and the destruction of nests.If you do this over an extended period of time the population will keep decreasing. As for the rabbits I'm not sure about that one. We never have a problem getting our limit so in my area I really don't see a decline. Heck the last time we went I had my limit within the first hour and the other three people I was with had theirs within the next two hours. I guess it all depends on the area you hunt.

Get prepared for a ration of "I hate the game commission," bearklr. What you posted is true, but it doesn't fit the agenda of those who think the blame commission is responsible for the demise of the ringneck, bobwhite quail, and also the passenger pigeon. It is easier for them to blame someone else, or to blame the abundance of predators, than to see things as they actually are.

i think predator numbers in general are going up pretty steadily...atleast on the western side of the state from what i noticed...we been seeing more foxes and yotes then ever...a couple years back i found bobcat tracks in SW venango county....i hunt alot in 2B..pretty populated.....so maybe they just got their old homes tore up and came to the land that we hunt.....but i think they are steadily on the rise...small game numbers seem to be going down too i think.....an area i hunt in venango county is usually loaded with grouse.....i found GREAT cover this winter with alot of food for them and didnt get a single flush...ill know more in the spring when im turkey hunting.....the drumming up there sounds crazy in the spring mornings.....

I would tend to agree. There have always been hawks, owls, etc... out there even during the "good old days". Sure, there might be a higher number now since they are federally protected but I would have a hard time believing they were solely responsible or even primarily responsible for the decrease in the pheasant population. Habitat loss is what I have always heard offered as the primary excuse..whether due to new farming practices or those $500,000 a home new developments.

On a related note, owls always seem to get the pheasants at our local club when we stock them the night before.

They are the problem here are some studies, you can put blinders on if you want but instead you should carry a 22 rifle when you are scouting and remove as many of these game killers as possible.










Predator Management
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Predator Management Ecology and Management of Predators
Serge Lariviere, Scientific Director, Delta Waterfowl
Rob Olson, Assistant Scientific Director, Delta Waterfowl
Changes in the prairies: new challenges for breeding ducks
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Jim, if you really want to save game animals from predators, you should start hunting the predator that has the greatest effect upon prey populations. Please let me know where you are hunting them. I want to be as far away as possible.